From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from alsa0.perex.cz (alsa0.perex.cz [77.48.224.243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D193EB64DC for ; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 12:34:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from alsa1.perex.cz (alsa1.perex.cz [207.180.221.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by alsa0.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F01887F4; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 14:33:50 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 alsa0.perex.cz F01887F4 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=alsa-project.org; s=default; t=1688906081; bh=5x6xKUeBEcGoluwYqew+DkhtRk6qF3j/K+HJS7ErQIo=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:List-Id:List-Archive:List-Help:List-Owner: List-Post:List-Subscribe:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=iiYddqKCZlSn6jD4c4/FS6IpCC+2h82ZfkObYiDEcfCqiYqjs0B7F4AaKp4qowKiw 7iE3kRpRxeAmzD0joRyrohE8qi6GaX6y/D88iwdIMyGPXVxFm+wIw7NNBMkSEVJUa/ iYbdK8aVQN0Ro4V242Hml9sdgbb9U070ubwBlo1I= Received: by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix, from userid 50401) id C271AF800E4; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 14:33:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailman-core.alsa-project.org (mailman-core.alsa-project.org [10.254.200.10]) by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F9EF80249; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 14:33:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix, from userid 50401) id 50332F80249; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 14:32:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bluemchen.kde.org (bluemchen.kde.org [209.51.188.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD2B7F800E4 for ; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 14:32:14 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 alsa1.perex.cz DD2B7F800E4 Received: from ugly.fritz.box (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bluemchen.kde.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7B672074D; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 08:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ugly.fritz.box (masqmail 0.3.6-dev, from userid 1000) id 1qITa7-3h0-00; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 14:32:03 +0200 Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2023 14:32:03 +0200 From: Oswald Buddenhagen To: Linus Torvalds Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, tiwai@suse.com, perex@perex.cz Subject: on (not) breaking user space Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID-Hash: KYXBBI5H6GL5CDYRUPBOBGKL2JKXKLX3 X-Message-ID-Hash: KYXBBI5H6GL5CDYRUPBOBGKL2JKXKLX3 X-MailFrom: ossi@kde.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-alsa-devel.alsa-project.org-0; header-match-alsa-devel.alsa-project.org-1; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Alsa-devel mailing list for ALSA developers - http://www.alsa-project.org" Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: hi linus, the alsa maintainers seem to be applying a reading of "we don't break user space" that i find counter-productive. so i would appreciate you clarifying your position on that matter (once more ...) to be clear, we're not arguing over changing any abi, but simply exercising one somewhat more than before. the claim is that this would likely have unacceptable consequences. i disagree. context: > Due to hardware constraints, changing the clock multiplier (CM) > changes the available audio ports and the number of available > channels. [...] Therefore, we do dynamic reconfiguration (DR) of the > mixer in response to changing the CM. arguments: > DR is somewhat controversial, as it has the potential to crash poorly > programmed applications. > But that in itself isn't a very convincing argument against it, as by > that logic we'd have to ban all hot-plugging. (1) > Such crashes would also not really qualify as regressions, as the > D.A.S. mode is a new opt-in feature, and therefore no previously > stable setups would be impacted. (2) the full text is at https://lore.kernel.org/all/20230630144542.664190-7-oswald.buddenhagen@gmx.de/ the preceding discussion is at https://lore.kernel.org/all/87v8fren1k.wl-tiwai@suse.de/T/#u regards, ossi