From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from alsa0.perex.cz (alsa0.perex.cz [77.48.224.243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39A38EB64DC for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 15:34:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from alsa1.perex.cz (alsa1.perex.cz [207.180.221.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by alsa0.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A175CDE5; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 17:33:39 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 alsa0.perex.cz A175CDE5 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=alsa-project.org; s=default; t=1689608069; bh=qd/6xtXuVXk+2PzZA6dPg/LkyDXpaZpLY86hMD7oack=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:List-Id: List-Archive:List-Help:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe:From; b=LlKiGFv40Jy/koF6XOzFQ1UAb+Rwbt/W2vrI5+k79Eor8wjiYfR+ttnxKTIESIDwq zt4CrU1heL3gp6EDD3gY5/1MqurswhSg5ecf4zBAAQjNrzOoQ2J1UYmBk0TnDB2hgD IB5abGyNjr1rn6/Wb9R9BGzJafC+wwb+f/RR1wik= Received: by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix, from userid 50401) id 180B6F8007E; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 17:33:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailman-core.alsa-project.org (mailman-core.alsa-project.org [10.254.200.10]) by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66C2BF8047D; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 17:33:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix, from userid 50401) id 1C4CAF8047D; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 17:33:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bluemchen.kde.org (bluemchen.kde.org [IPv6:2001:470:142:8::100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BBF4F8027B for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 17:32:54 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 alsa1.perex.cz 5BBF4F8027B Received: from ugly.fritz.box (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bluemchen.kde.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 292DD23EE2; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 11:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ugly.fritz.box (masqmail 0.3.6-dev, from userid 1000) id 1qLQDS-jJm-00; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 17:32:50 +0200 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2023 17:32:50 +0200 From: Oswald Buddenhagen To: Takashi Iwai Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, Jaroslav Kysela Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/8] ALSA: emu10k1: add support for high-bitrate modes of E-MU cards Message-ID: References: <20230630144542.664190-1-oswald.buddenhagen@gmx.de> <87sf9vyfer.wl-tiwai@suse.de> <87mt02wvsa.wl-tiwai@suse.de> <87ilaiwvgg.wl-tiwai@suse.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87ilaiwvgg.wl-tiwai@suse.de> Message-ID-Hash: KY2NQI3JKCEYODCIGSFM2FVTKWGTTYGR X-Message-ID-Hash: KY2NQI3JKCEYODCIGSFM2FVTKWGTTYGR X-MailFrom: ossi@kde.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-alsa-devel.alsa-project.org-0; header-match-alsa-devel.alsa-project.org-1; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Alsa-devel mailing list for ALSA developers - http://www.alsa-project.org" Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 02:53:19PM +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote: >On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 12:19:49 +0200, >Oswald Buddenhagen wrote: >> >> you want me to spend additional time >> on a driver barely anyone still cares about >> to actively degrade the (my!) user experience >> to avoid hypothetical / likely obsolete crashes >> that would happen upon a rare user-controlled event >> in unspecified buggy (mixer? (!)) applications, >> while a known-good fallback exists (alsamixer). > >Simply put, YES. > well, your priorities don't align with the needs of actual users (that would be me, in this case). >If you've ever programmed applications that deal with ALSA >mixer/control stuff by yourself, you'll notice that it's really tough >to deal with the dynamic deletion/addition. > hot-plugging always requires some care to handle. i don't consider this a showstopper, esp. in the year 2023, when udev and pulseaudio/pipewire go all crazy on us (and yes, that crashed kmix - big deal). i don't think it's sane to set the bar at 1995 standards. even less so when the class of potentially affected apps holds no user data of note. >alsamixer can accept it in the limited manner, >but it's no fallback for everything, of course. > i have no clue what point you're trying to make. regards