From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-path: Received: from mail2.candelatech.com ([208.74.158.173] helo=mail3.candelatech.com) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1jdGbG-0008DD-24 for ath10k@lists.infradead.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 17:09:19 +0000 Subject: Re: [RFC 1/2] devlink: add simple fw crash helpers References: <20200519010530.GS11244@42.do-not-panic.com> <20200519211531.3702593-1-kuba@kernel.org> <20200522052046.GY11244@42.do-not-panic.com> <20200522101738.1495f4cc@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <2e5199edb433c217c7974ef7408ff8c7253145b6.camel@sipsolutions.net> <20200522215145.GC11244@42.do-not-panic.com> <20200525090749.GJ1634618@smile.fi.intel.com> From: Ben Greear Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 10:08:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200525090749.GJ1634618@smile.fi.intel.com> List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: "ath10k" Errors-To: ath10k-bounces+kvalo=adurom.com@lists.infradead.org To: Andy Shevchenko , Steve deRosier Cc: linux-wireless , aquini@redhat.com, peterz@infradead.org, Daniel Vetter , mchehab+samsung@kernel.org, will@kernel.org, bhe@redhat.com, briannorris@chromium.org, ath10k@lists.infradead.org, Takashi Iwai , mingo@redhat.com, Jakub Kicinski , dyoung@redhat.com, pmladek@suse.com, jiri@resnulli.us, Kees Cook , arnd@arndb.de, gpiccoli@canonical.com, rostedt@goodmis.org, cai@lca.pw, tglx@linutronix.de, akpm@linux-foundation.org, Kalle Valo , Network Development , schlad@suse.de, LKML , Luis Chamberlain , jeyu@kernel.org, Johannes Berg , "David S. Miller" On 05/25/2020 02:07 AM, Andy Shevchenko wrote: > On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 04:23:55PM -0700, Steve deRosier wrote: >> On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 2:51 PM Luis Chamberlain wrote: > >> I had to go RTFM re: kernel taints because it has been a very long >> time since I looked at them. It had always seemed to me that most were >> caused by "kernel-unfriendly" user actions. The most famous of course >> is loading proprietary modules, out-of-tree modules, forced module >> loads, etc... Honestly, I had forgotten the large variety of uses of >> the taint flags. For anyone who hasn't looked at taints recently, I >> recommend: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/tainted-kernels.html >> >> In light of this I don't object to setting a taint on this anymore. >> I'm a little uneasy, but I've softened on it now, and now I feel it >> depends on implementation. >> >> Specifically, I don't think we should set a taint flag when a driver >> easily handles a routine firmware crash and is confident that things >> have come up just fine again. In other words, triggering the taint in >> every driver module where it spits out a log comment that it had a >> firmware crash and had to recover seems too much. Sure, firmware >> shouldn't crash, sure it should be open source so we can fix it, >> whatever... > > While it may sound idealistic the firmware for the end-user, and even for mere > kernel developer like me, is a complete blackbox which has more access than > root user in the kernel. We have tons of firmwares and each of them potentially > dangerous beast. As a user I really care about my data and privacy (hacker can > oops a firmware in order to set a specific vector attack). So, tainting kernel > is _a least_ we can do there, the strict rules would be to reboot immediately. > >> those sort of wishful comments simply ignore reality and >> our ability to affect effective change. > > We can encourage users not to buy cheap crap for the starter. There is no stable wifi firmware for any price. There is also no obvious feedback from even name-brand NICs like ath10k or AX200 when you report a crash. That said, at least in my experience with ath10k-ct, the OS normally recovers fine from firmware crashes. ath10k already reports full crash reports on udev, so easy for user-space to notice and report bug reports upstream if it cares to. Probably other NICs do the same, and if not, they certainly could. Thanks, Ben -- Ben Greear Candela Technologies Inc http://www.candelatech.com _______________________________________________ ath10k mailing list ath10k@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/ath10k