* [B.A.T.M.A.N.] batman over 802.15.4 .
@ 2012-11-20 4:25 Randy Graham
2012-11-20 8:27 ` Sven Eckelmann
2012-11-20 8:45 ` Marek Lindner
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Randy Graham @ 2012-11-20 4:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: b.a.t.m.a.n
Hello,
I have recently discovered batman-adv and am very interesting in
getting it running on a custom embedded linux board we are developing.
I have a couple of questions:
1. Will batman-adv work over 802.15.4 ?
I have a microchip MRF24J40 802.15.4 module integrated on my linux
board (3.7.0-rc6), and can bring up wpan-phy0 and lowpan0 interfaces.
2. Can batman-adv work with either of these interfaces ?
I tried configuring these interfaces using 'batctl' but it complains
that they are an unsupported type.
'iwconfig' reports these interfaces as having 'no wireless extensions'
which I suspect is the issue.
Please let me know if running b.a.t.m.a.n. over 802.15.4 is feasible.
Thanks,
-Randy
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] batman over 802.15.4 .
2012-11-20 4:25 [B.A.T.M.A.N.] batman over 802.15.4 Randy Graham
@ 2012-11-20 8:27 ` Sven Eckelmann
2012-11-20 9:24 ` Antonio Quartulli
2012-11-20 8:45 ` Marek Lindner
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Sven Eckelmann @ 2012-11-20 8:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: b.a.t.m.a.n; +Cc: Randy Graham
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On Monday 19 November 2012 20:25:34 Randy Graham wrote:
[...]
> 1. Will batman-adv work over 802.15.4 ?
[...]
> 2. Can batman-adv work with either of these interfaces ?
>
> I tried configuring these interfaces using 'batctl' but it complains
> that they are an unsupported type.
> 'iwconfig' reports these interfaces as having 'no wireless extensions'
> which I suspect is the issue.
No, batman-adv works on 802.3 compatible interfaces (aka ARPHRD_ETHER) which
provide special mac behaviour. This has nothing to do with the wireless
extensions (which are deprecated anyway).
> Please let me know if running b.a.t.m.a.n. over 802.15.4 is feasible.
802.15.4 has the type ARPHRD_IEEE802154 for its fake hard interfaces. So you
need an "ethernet emulation" layer on top of it to use it with batman-adv. I
don't know whether the mac layer works well enough in theory to be used with
batman-adv.
Kind regards,
Sven
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] batman over 802.15.4 .
2012-11-20 4:25 [B.A.T.M.A.N.] batman over 802.15.4 Randy Graham
2012-11-20 8:27 ` Sven Eckelmann
@ 2012-11-20 8:45 ` Marek Lindner
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Marek Lindner @ 2012-11-20 8:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking
On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:25:34 Randy Graham wrote:
> I tried configuring these interfaces using 'batctl' but it complains
> that they are an unsupported type.
> 'iwconfig' reports these interfaces as having 'no wireless extensions'
> which I suspect is the issue.
The batman-adv kernel module checks for interface compatibility and only if an
interface is suitable the corresponding /sys/class/net/$iface/batman-adv
subfolder is created. It is that folder batctl tries to find in order to
enable batman-adv on the given interface.
Cheers,
Marek
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] batman over 802.15.4 .
2012-11-20 8:27 ` Sven Eckelmann
@ 2012-11-20 9:24 ` Antonio Quartulli
2012-11-20 23:37 ` Randy Graham
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Antonio Quartulli @ 2012-11-20 9:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking; +Cc: Randy Graham
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On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 09:27:39AM +0100, Sven Eckelmann wrote:
> On Monday 19 November 2012 20:25:34 Randy Graham wrote:
> [...]
> > 1. Will batman-adv work over 802.15.4 ?
> [...]
> > 2. Can batman-adv work with either of these interfaces ?
> >
> > I tried configuring these interfaces using 'batctl' but it complains
> > that they are an unsupported type.
> > 'iwconfig' reports these interfaces as having 'no wireless extensions'
> > which I suspect is the issue.
>
> No, batman-adv works on 802.3 compatible interfaces (aka ARPHRD_ETHER) which
> provide special mac behaviour. This has nothing to do with the wireless
> extensions (which are deprecated anyway).
>
> > Please let me know if running b.a.t.m.a.n. over 802.15.4 is feasible.
>
> 802.15.4 has the type ARPHRD_IEEE802154 for its fake hard interfaces. So you
> need an "ethernet emulation" layer on top of it to use it with batman-adv. I
> don't know whether the mac layer works well enough in theory to be used with
> batman-adv.
And other than these technical details, I would say that batman-adv is not a
very good protocol for 802.15.4/low-power wireless. It might need heavy
restructuring if you really want to use it in a deployment.
However, I'm pretty familiar with 802.15.4, therefore if you really want to go
ahead, we can even discuss further what batman-adv would need and what would
not.
Regards,
--
Antonio Quartulli
..each of us alone is worth nothing..
Ernesto "Che" Guevara
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] batman over 802.15.4 .
2012-11-20 9:24 ` Antonio Quartulli
@ 2012-11-20 23:37 ` Randy Graham
2012-11-20 23:41 ` Antonio Quartulli
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Randy Graham @ 2012-11-20 23:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: b.a.t.m.a.n
Thanks for all of your replies, you have answered my questions !
It seems that batman-adv is not suitable for a 802.15.4 mesh network,
so I guess I'll need to look elsewhere.
Does anyone know of a non-proprietary mesh network stack for 802.15.4 on linux ?
I know that zigbee has not made into the kernel due to GPL issues.
Thanks again for your help.
-Randy
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Antonio Quartulli <ordex@autistici.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 09:27:39AM +0100, Sven Eckelmann wrote:
>> On Monday 19 November 2012 20:25:34 Randy Graham wrote:
>> [...]
>> > 1. Will batman-adv work over 802.15.4 ?
>> [...]
>> > 2. Can batman-adv work with either of these interfaces ?
>> >
>> > I tried configuring these interfaces using 'batctl' but it complains
>> > that they are an unsupported type.
>> > 'iwconfig' reports these interfaces as having 'no wireless extensions'
>> > which I suspect is the issue.
>>
>> No, batman-adv works on 802.3 compatible interfaces (aka ARPHRD_ETHER) which
>> provide special mac behaviour. This has nothing to do with the wireless
>> extensions (which are deprecated anyway).
>>
>> > Please let me know if running b.a.t.m.a.n. over 802.15.4 is feasible.
>>
>> 802.15.4 has the type ARPHRD_IEEE802154 for its fake hard interfaces. So you
>> need an "ethernet emulation" layer on top of it to use it with batman-adv. I
>> don't know whether the mac layer works well enough in theory to be used with
>> batman-adv.
>
>
> And other than these technical details, I would say that batman-adv is not a
> very good protocol for 802.15.4/low-power wireless. It might need heavy
> restructuring if you really want to use it in a deployment.
>
> However, I'm pretty familiar with 802.15.4, therefore if you really want to go
> ahead, we can even discuss further what batman-adv would need and what would
> not.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> --
> Antonio Quartulli
>
> ..each of us alone is worth nothing..
> Ernesto "Che" Guevara
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] batman over 802.15.4 .
2012-11-20 23:37 ` Randy Graham
@ 2012-11-20 23:41 ` Antonio Quartulli
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Antonio Quartulli @ 2012-11-20 23:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking
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On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 03:37:17PM -0800, Randy Graham wrote:
> Thanks for all of your replies, you have answered my questions !
>
> It seems that batman-adv is not suitable for a 802.15.4 mesh network,
> so I guess I'll need to look elsewhere.
>
> Does anyone know of a non-proprietary mesh network stack for 802.15.4 on linux ?
> I know that zigbee has not made into the kernel due to GPL issues.
We are going OT, but it is worth an answer. :)
As far as I know there is nothing for multi-hop routing on 802.15.4 in the linux
kernel. So I think you need to implement something yourself.
You can either start a port of RPL (e.g. from Contiki) or you can start an
experiment and try to adapt batman-adv to run on top of those interfaces.
I would say that the second is a really juicy topic.
If you do so, we could also think about having a mixed mesh network, part which
runs low power and part which runs common 802.11.
Cheers,
--
Antonio Quartulli
..each of us alone is worth nothing..
Ernesto "Che" Guevara
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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2012-11-20 4:25 [B.A.T.M.A.N.] batman over 802.15.4 Randy Graham
2012-11-20 8:27 ` Sven Eckelmann
2012-11-20 9:24 ` Antonio Quartulli
2012-11-20 23:37 ` Randy Graham
2012-11-20 23:41 ` Antonio Quartulli
2012-11-20 8:45 ` Marek Lindner
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