[B.A.T.M.A.N.] Replacing OLSRD with batman-adv?

[B.A.T.M.A.N.] Replacing OLSRD with batman-adv?

[tjhowse]

Hi Ladies and Gents,

I've built a three-node mesh network using cheap TP-Link TL-WDR3600
routers. They can do simultaneous 5.8GHz and 2.4GHz. I use the 5.8 for
the backbone links between the nodes, and 2.4 to clients. The nodes
are running OpenWRT and OLSRD.

This system mostly works well, but there are a couple of problems with
it that I'm wondering if batman-adv would solve or make easier to
solve:

1) The backbone links cannot be better protected than WEP, a
limitation of OLSRD,
2) Gateway assignment is a manual process, which must be performed on
every node in the mesh, referring to the single node connected to the
WAN,
3) The manual gateway configuration of 2) prevents peer-to-peer
communications between mesh clients,
4) Each node has its own /24 subnet. This causes problems when a
device roams from one device's jurisdiction to another if the
interface doesn't re-issue a DHCP request.

We're expanding the network, I've just bought another ten of these
routers, and I'm going to spend some time assessing if batman-adv
would be a better fit for our purposes. There will be a range of ios,
android and windows devices connecting to the mesh.

My questions are as follows:

1) Does batman-adv worth with WPA2 or better encryption?
2) Must every client to a batman-adv mesh have a daemon installed?
3) Is it possible to separate different radio interfaces for different
purposes? I.E. 5.8 for backbone, 2.4 for clients.
4) Can all nodes and clients on a mesh have an IP in the same subnet,
solving some of the roaming problems caused by bad interface settings
or drivers?

Thanks,
Travis.

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Replacing OLSRD with batman-adv?

[Simon Wunderlich]

Hello Travis,

> Hi Ladies and Gents,
> 
> I've built a three-node mesh network using cheap TP-Link TL-WDR3600
> routers. They can do simultaneous 5.8GHz and 2.4GHz. I use the 5.8 for
> the backbone links between the nodes, and 2.4 to clients. The nodes
> are running OpenWRT and OLSRD.
> 
> This system mostly works well, but there are a couple of problems with
> it that I'm wondering if batman-adv would solve or make easier to
> solve:
> 
> 1) The backbone links cannot be better protected than WEP, a
> limitation of OLSRD,
> 2) Gateway assignment is a manual process, which must be performed on
> every node in the mesh, referring to the single node connected to the
> WAN,
> 3) The manual gateway configuration of 2) prevents peer-to-peer
> communications between mesh clients,
> 4) Each node has its own /24 subnet. This causes problems when a
> device roams from one device's jurisdiction to another if the
> interface doesn't re-issue a DHCP request.
> 
> We're expanding the network, I've just bought another ten of these
> routers, and I'm going to spend some time assessing if batman-adv
> would be a better fit for our purposes. There will be a range of ios,
> android and windows devices connecting to the mesh.
> 
> My questions are as follows:
> 
> 1) Does batman-adv worth with WPA2 or better encryption?

you can use IBSS/RSN with wpa-supplicant, this is WPA2 encryption for Ad-Hoc. 
(BTW this would also work with olsr). It is available in recent kernels and 
OpenWRT trunk.

> 2) Must every client to a batman-adv mesh have a daemon installed?

No, that's not required.

> 3) Is it possible to separate different radio interfaces for different
> purposes? I.E. 5.8 for backbone, 2.4 for clients.

Yes, you can instruct batman-adv to only use the 5.8 GHz interface. Just add 
the interfaces you want batman-adv to use.

> 4) Can all nodes and clients on a mesh have an IP in the same subnet,
> solving some of the roaming problems caused by bad interface settings
> or drivers?

Yes, that's one of the strong points of batman-adv compared to Layer3 routing 
daemons. Just put a DHCP server somewhere in your network, bridge everything, 
and enjoy a Layer2 broadcast domain with only one subnet, just as you would 
use it in a LAN. We also support fast roaming, so you can maintain 
connectivity when changing Access Points with only minimal outages.

We have a lot of documentation, you can get started at:
https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/batman-adv/wiki/Quick-start-guide

if you have multiple gatways to the Internet check
https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/batman-adv/wiki/Gateways

Although this is not required if you only have one gateway.

Cheers,
    Simon

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Replacing OLSRD with batman-adv?

[cmsv]

Hello Travis.

On 11/08/2013 03:42 AM, tjhowse wrote:
> Hi Ladies and Gents,
> 
> I've built a three-node mesh network using cheap TP-Link TL-WDR3600
> routers. They can do simultaneous 5.8GHz and 2.4GHz. I use the 5.8 for
> the backbone links between the nodes, and 2.4 to clients. The nodes
> are running OpenWRT and OLSRD.
> 
> This system mostly works well, but there are a couple of problems with
> it that I'm wondering if batman-adv would solve or make easier to
> solve:
> 
> 1) The backbone links cannot be better protected than WEP, a
> limitation of OLSRD,
> 2) Gateway assignment is a manual process, which must be performed on
> every node in the mesh, referring to the single node connected to the
> WAN,
> 3) The manual gateway configuration of 2) prevents peer-to-peer
> communications between mesh clients,
> 4) Each node has its own /24 subnet. This causes problems when a
> device roams from one device's jurisdiction to another if the
> interface doesn't re-issue a DHCP request.
> 
> We're expanding the network, I've just bought another ten of these
> routers, and I'm going to spend some time assessing if batman-adv
> would be a better fit for our purposes. There will be a range of ios,
> android and windows devices connecting to the mesh.
> 
> My questions are as follows:
> 
> 1) Does batman-adv worth with WPA2 or better encryption?
Yes but you need some changes such as replacing wpad-mini by wpad and
probably mac80211 and hostpad depending on which openwrt release you
will be using to do all this.

> 2) Must every client to a batman-adv mesh have a daemon installed?
Every node must have batman-adv

> 3) Is it possible to separate different radio interfaces for different
> purposes? I.E. 5.8 for backbone, 2.4 for clients.
Yes and you can even have VAP's

> 4) Can all nodes and clients on a mesh have an IP in the same subnet,
> solving some of the roaming problems caused by bad interface settings
> or drivers?
Yes.


Let me know about your progress regarding these changes if you encounter
some issues because there are some and i have also being trying to solve
them.

> 
> Thanks,
> Travis.
> .
> 

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Replacing OLSRD with batman-adv?

[Antonio Quartulli]

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On Sat, Nov 09, 2013 at 05:57:51AM -0500, cmsv wrote:
> > 2) Must every client to a batman-adv mesh have a daemon installed?
> Every node must have batman-adv

Be careful to do not confuse him. He asked about *clients*, and clients are not
required to run batman-adv.

Cheers,

-- 
Antonio Quartulli

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Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Replacing OLSRD with batman-adv?

[cmsv]

Perhaps i misunderstood.

On 11/08/2013 06:07 AM, Antonio Quartulli wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 09, 2013 at 05:57:51AM -0500, cmsv wrote:
>>> 2) Must every client to a batman-adv mesh have a daemon installed?
>> Every node must have batman-adv
> 
> Be careful to do not confuse him. He asked about *clients*, and clients are not
> required to run batman-adv.

Does he mean clients as the people connecting to the access points with
their computer or node clients that connect to mesh node routers that
are servers and or gateways and are part of the backbone?

> 
> Cheers,
> 

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Replacing OLSRD with batman-adv?

[Antonio Quartulli]

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On Sat, Nov 09, 2013 at 06:12:26AM -0500, cmsv wrote:
> Perhaps i misunderstood.
> 
> On 11/08/2013 06:07 AM, Antonio Quartulli wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 09, 2013 at 05:57:51AM -0500, cmsv wrote:
> >>> 2) Must every client to a batman-adv mesh have a daemon installed?
> >> Every node must have batman-adv
> > 
> > Be careful to do not confuse him. He asked about *clients*, and clients are not
> > required to run batman-adv.
> 
> Does he mean clients as the people connecting to the access points with
> their computer or node clients that connect to mesh node routers that
> are servers and or gateways and are part of the backbone?

You are talking about a very specific topic: the Gateway feature.
He was asking about the general infrastructure. So clients are user devices.


Cheers,


-- 
Antonio Quartulli

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Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Replacing OLSRD with batman-adv?

[Andrew Lunn]

On Sat, Nov 09, 2013 at 06:12:26AM -0500, cmsv wrote:
> Perhaps i misunderstood.
> 
> On 11/08/2013 06:07 AM, Antonio Quartulli wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 09, 2013 at 05:57:51AM -0500, cmsv wrote:
> >>> 2) Must every client to a batman-adv mesh have a daemon installed?
> >> Every node must have batman-adv
> > 
> > Be careful to do not confuse him. He asked about *clients*, and clients are not
> > required to run batman-adv.
> 
> Does he mean clients as the people connecting to the access points with
> their computer or node clients that connect to mesh node routers that
> are servers and or gateways and are part of the backbone?

With BATMAN you can split the network into two parts. The mesh
infrastructure, a.k.a the mesh nodes, and devices using the
infrastructure, a.k.a, the clients.

All nodes in the mesh infrastructure need to run batman-adv, so that
they play an active part in the mesh. With the hardware described
here, one of the two interfaces is running in Adhoc mode and is part
of the mesh.

The other interface is run in plain old access point mode. The devices
using the mesh infrastructure connect to the access point as a
station. Thus they don't need batman-adv. They can also roam from
access point to access point, and the mesh infrastructure will work
out delivering the frames to the right access point and so to the
client.

	Andrew