[B.A.T.M.A.N.] Node with two wireless interfaces - to bridge them or not?

[B.A.T.M.A.N.] Node with two wireless interfaces - to bridge them or not?

[Predrag Balorda]

I have one node that has two wireless interfaces. I was thinking to increase
somewhat the multi-hop bandwidth loss and what is the best way of doing that.
Currently I have ath0 with two nodes on there and ath1 with another two nodes
but I'm not bridging those two interfaces. The thing is, they are on the same
subnet so is there any point in keeping them "separate", any performance
advantage, or should I just make a bridge and add the two ath's to it and just
have a single IP and run batman on that one bridge or leave it as it is, with
two IPs from the same subnet and run batman ath0 /w ath1 /w as I do currently?

Pele

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Node with two wireless interfaces - to bridge them or not?

[Simon Wunderlich]

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Hello Pele,

bridging multiple interfaces is probably not a good idea, because as
soon as you have a cycle there will be bridging loops. The frames will
cycle until they are droppend and there is no TTL to stop them! :)
In Ethernet, a solution for this is STP [1], which will cut off (one of) 
the links in the loop, but probably the good ones, so that is not what 
you want. That is what the mesh is supposed to do. But bridging would
not bring you any performance increase anyway, so i'd suggest to 
stick with your current setup.
(if you want to have only IP per interface for some reason, you can also
have a look at batman-advanced).
To increase multi-hop bandwidth you should better try the standard wifi 
ways to reduce interferences/packet loss. E.g. try to switch off rts, 
switch on fragmentation, limit baserate etc. 

Best regards
	Simon

[1] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanning_Tree_Protocol

On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 11:18:38AM +0200, Predrag Balorda wrote:
> I have one node that has two wireless interfaces. I was thinking to increase
> somewhat the multi-hop bandwidth loss and what is the best way of doing that.
> Currently I have ath0 with two nodes on there and ath1 with another two nodes
> but I'm not bridging those two interfaces. The thing is, they are on the same
> subnet so is there any point in keeping them "separate", any performance
> advantage, or should I just make a bridge and add the two ath's to it and just
> have a single IP and run batman on that one bridge or leave it as it is, with
> two IPs from the same subnet and run batman ath0 /w ath1 /w as I do currently?
> 
> Pele
> 
> _______________________________________________
> B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list
> B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net
> https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n

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RE: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Node with two wireless interfaces - to bridge them or not?

[Predrag Balorda]

Thanks, so I'll keep it as it is then as far as interfaces are concerned.

I would love to try out batman-adv with layer2 (as I truly believe that is the
only way forward in meshes) but as it stands all my routers are on rooftops and
if I mess something up I'm stuck! This way, I just keep updating batmand and it
works (but not as fast as I'd like it to be).

I've tried to play with FRAGmentation but setting it to anything other than off
(2346) the transfer (I use wget ftp://host/file) stops.
I played with RTS and I really don't know what to say. It is SO FRUSTRATING!
Yesterday I've had the mesh set up and it ran OK (1.7Mbps between two nodes - is
there ANYONE that gets 11Mbps, EVER?) but today nothing works. And it just keeps
driving me crazy. Every day I have to reset and re-test and fiddle with it. I
just need settings that work.  I just can't believe that with my rssi of 17-20,
which looks decent enough, I cannot get consistent performance. I believe
madwifi drivers also have a big role to play in my frustration. Also this
mixture of Broadcom and atheros is driving me crazy. 4 atheros and 1 broadcom,
and Broadcom just keeps quitting. After a day or two it disassociates and
disappears, then I have to go over and unplug it. MAD!

I wish there was someone out there who knows wireless inside-out and who would
be able to spare a day in helping me with getting this thing going. As it
stands, it just makes me want to give it all up and become a farmer or
something.

Pele

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Simon Wunderlich [mailto:simon.wunderlich@s2003.tu-chemnitz.de]
> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:35 PM
> To: pele@balorda.com; The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc
> Networking
> Subject: Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Node with two wireless interfaces - to bridge
> them or not?
> 
> Hello Pele,
> 
> bridging multiple interfaces is probably not a good idea, because as soon
> as you have a cycle there will be bridging loops. The frames will cycle
> until they are droppend and there is no TTL to stop them! :) In Ethernet, a
> solution for this is STP [1], which will cut off (one of) the links in the
> loop, but probably the good ones, so that is not what you want. That is
> what the mesh is supposed to do. But bridging would not bring you any
> performance increase anyway, so i'd suggest to stick with your current
> setup.
> (if you want to have only IP per interface for some reason, you can also
> have a look at batman-advanced).
> To increase multi-hop bandwidth you should better try the standard wifi
> ways to reduce interferences/packet loss. E.g. try to switch off rts,
> switch on fragmentation, limit baserate etc.
> 
> Best regards
> 	Simon
> 
> [1] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanning_Tree_Protocol
> 
> On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 11:18:38AM +0200, Predrag Balorda wrote:
> > I have one node that has two wireless interfaces. I was thinking to
> > increase somewhat the multi-hop bandwidth loss and what is the best way
> of doing that.
> > Currently I have ath0 with two nodes on there and ath1 with another
> > two nodes but I'm not bridging those two interfaces. The thing is,
> > they are on the same subnet so is there any point in keeping them
> > "separate", any performance advantage, or should I just make a bridge
> > and add the two ath's to it and just have a single IP and run batman
> > on that one bridge or leave it as it is, with two IPs from the same
> subnet and run batman ath0 /w ath1 /w as I do currently?
> >
> > Pele
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list
> > B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net
> > https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Node with two wireless interfaces - to bridge them or not?

[elektra]

Hi -

Fragmentation is broken in current Madwifi. Every packet bigger than the 
fragmentation value will not be send. This is bad, because fragmentation 
is pretty important for smooth data transfers.

Another notorious problem is IBSS cell-splitting, you can fix that by using

iwconfig athX ap 02:CA:FF:EE:BA:BE (or whatever cell-id you wish)

Also it is recommended to select the ministrel rate adaption mechanism 
when loading the driver.

Try a recent Madwifi version from  OpenWRT Kamikaze (i.e. get the 
OpenWRT patches and apply them to the Madwifi version used in OpenWRT).

cu elektra

[B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[Solon Lutz]

Hi,

my name is Solon and I'm trying to build a wifi network for the Studentendorf Schlachtensee in Berlin. For various reasons, I'd like to integrate
BATMAN Advanced into the ROBIN-FW or any other FW that makes deployment
through people without any IT-knowledge possible.

My question is: are there any developers or people with profound knowledge,
who attend the c-base meetings on wednesdays and who are willing to give
me an inside look into the recent builds?

Thx in advance...

solon

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[elektra]

Hi -

I usually spend my wednesday evening there.

cu elektra
> Hi,
>
> my name is Solon and I'm trying to build a wifi network for the Studentendorf Schlachtensee in Berlin. For various reasons, I'd like to integrate
> BATMAN Advanced into the ROBIN-FW or any other FW that makes deployment
> through people without any IT-knowledge possible.
>
> My question is: are there any developers or people with profound knowledge,
> who attend the c-base meetings on wednesdays and who are willing to give
> me an inside look into the recent builds?
>
> Thx in advance...
>
> solon
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list
> B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net
> https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
>
>   

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[Marek Lindner]

Hi,

> My question is: are there any developers or people with profound knowledge,
> who attend the c-base meetings on wednesdays and who are willing to give
> me an inside look into the recent builds?

I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people that 
can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless 
community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be Simon. 
We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation.
I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a 
little workshop ?

Greetings,
Marek

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[Solon Lutz]

Dear Marek Lindner,

on Sonntag, 6. April 2008 at 18:39 you wrote:

> Hi,

>> My question is: are there any developers or people with profound knowledge,
>> who attend the c-base meetings on wednesdays and who are willing to give
>> me an inside look into the recent builds?

> I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people that 
> can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless 
> community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be Simon. 
> We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation.
> I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a 
> little workshop ?

A BATMAN adv workshop would be great, if we need a little bit more space,
30+ fonera APs and a huge area - I can provide all of it...

bye

solon

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[Marek Lindner]

Hi,

> > I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people
> > that can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless
> > community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be
> > Simon. We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation.
> > I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a
> > little workshop ?

> A BATMAN adv workshop would be great, if we need a little bit more space,
> 30+ fonera APs and a huge area - I can provide all of it...

sounds very cool - we should do that.

@cven: Can you help preparing that ?

Greetings,
Marek

Re[2]: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[Solon Lutz]

ML> Hi,

>> > I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people
>> > that can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless
>> > community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be
>> > Simon. We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation.
>> > I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a
>> > little workshop ?

>> A BATMAN adv workshop would be great, if we need a little bit more space,
>> 30+ fonera APs and a huge area - I can provide all of it...

More to come:

Have a look at www.studentendorf.de , if we meet there, we can use all the existing facilities:

Internet-Access, a huge meeting-room with enough tables and chairs for
50+ people, Student-Club www.club-a18.de (food/drinks from 20:00 to 1:00).

Free accommodation for people with mattresses/sleeping-bags can be arranged,
breakfast for everybody is also possible. You can also rent a bed&breakfast
room on site for €24.

Public transportation:

BUS 112/N48 or S-Bahn Schlachtensee (7min) / Nikolassee (12min)


bye

Solon

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[elektra]

Hi -

at the Wireless Community Weekend (May 2nd-5th in Berlin/Germany @ 
C-Base) there will be a test with 20+ Foneras running RO.B.I.N.

The B.A.T.M.A.N. developers will be around (maybe we'll miss Axel, he 
wasn't sure whether he will be in Berlin on time).

If you have the time, join us!

cu elektra


WCW Venue:
c-base e.V.
rungestrasse 20
10179 berlin (center)



> ML> Hi,
>
>   
>>>> I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people
>>>> that can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless
>>>> community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be
>>>> Simon. We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation.
>>>> I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a
>>>> little workshop ?
>>>>         
>
>   
>>> A BATMAN adv workshop would be great, if we need a little bit more space,
>>> 30+ fonera APs and a huge area - I can provide all of it...
>>>       
>
> More to come:
>
> Have a look at www.studentendorf.de , if we meet there, we can use all the existing facilities:
>
> Internet-Access, a huge meeting-room with enough tables and chairs for
> 50+ people, Student-Club www.club-a18.de (food/drinks from 20:00 to 1:00).
>
> Free accommodation for people with mattresses/sleeping-bags can be arranged,
> breakfast for everybody is also possible. You can also rent a bed&breakfast
> room on site for €24.
>
> Public transportation:
>
> BUS 112/N48 or S-Bahn Schlachtensee (7min) / Nikolassee (12min)
>
>
> bye
>
> Solon
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list
> B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net
> https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
>
>   

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[elektra]

Hi -

correction: May 2nd-4th not May 2nd-5th.

cu elektra
> Hi -
>
> at the Wireless Community Weekend (May 2nd-5th in Berlin/Germany @ 
> C-Base) there will be a test with 20+ Foneras running RO.B.I.N.
>
> The B.A.T.M.A.N. developers will be around (maybe we'll miss Axel, he 
> wasn't sure whether he will be in Berlin on time).
>
> If you have the time, join us!
>
> cu elektra
>
>
> WCW Venue:
> c-base e.V.
> rungestrasse 20
> 10179 berlin (center)
>
>
>
>> ML> Hi,
>>
>>  
>>>>> I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find 
>>>>> people
>>>>> that can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a 
>>>>> wireless
>>>>> community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be
>>>>> Simon. We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation.
>>>>> I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we 
>>>>> will do a
>>>>> little workshop ?
>>>>>         
>>
>>  
>>>> A BATMAN adv workshop would be great, if we need a little bit more 
>>>> space,
>>>> 30+ fonera APs and a huge area - I can provide all of it...
>>>>       
>>
>> More to come:
>>
>> Have a look at www.studentendorf.de , if we meet there, we can use 
>> all the existing facilities:
>>
>> Internet-Access, a huge meeting-room with enough tables and chairs for
>> 50+ people, Student-Club www.club-a18.de (food/drinks from 20:00 to 
>> 1:00).
>>
>> Free accommodation for people with mattresses/sleeping-bags can be 
>> arranged,
>> breakfast for everybody is also possible. You can also rent a 
>> bed&breakfast
>> room on site for €24.
>>
>> Public transportation:
>>
>> BUS 112/N48 or S-Bahn Schlachtensee (7min) / Nikolassee (12min)
>>
>>
>> bye
>>
>> Solon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list
>> B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net
>> https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
>>
>>   
>
> _______________________________________________
> B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list
> B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net
> https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
>

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[Simon Wunderlich]

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Hello Solon,

thank you for the offer, but i really think we should do this workshop
in the c-base, because all people will be assembled there, and i'm sure
there are some people who will join us spontanously.

It would be nice if you could bring some FON-routers (like 5 to 10) that
we can use for the workshop for the batman-adv. That would be enough for
the start, and maybe more people will come and join with their routers.

Best Regards,
	Simon

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 12:39:11PM +0200, Solon Lutz wrote:
> ML> Hi,
> 
> >> > I think the "batman advanced" topic is quite new and you wont find people
> >> > that can help you easily. The first weekend in May we will have a wireless
> >> > community weekend in Berlin (C-Base). I will be there and so will be
> >> > Simon. We are the main developers behind the layer 2 implementation.
> >> > I believe more people are interested in that topic - may be we will do a
> >> > little workshop ?
> 
> >> A BATMAN adv workshop would be great, if we need a little bit more space,
> >> 30+ fonera APs and a huge area - I can provide all of it...
> 
> More to come:
> 
> Have a look at www.studentendorf.de , if we meet there, we can use all the existing facilities:
> 
> Internet-Access, a huge meeting-room with enough tables and chairs for
> 50+ people, Student-Club www.club-a18.de (food/drinks from 20:00 to 1:00).
> 
> Free accommodation for people with mattresses/sleeping-bags can be arranged,
> breakfast for everybody is also possible. You can also rent a bed&breakfast
> room on site for €24.
> 
> Public transportation:
> 
> BUS 112/N48 or S-Bahn Schlachtensee (7min) / Nikolassee (12min)
> 

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Re[2]: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[Solon Lutz]

SW> Hello Solon,

SW> It would be nice if you could bring some FON-routers (like 5 to 10) that
SW> we can use for the workshop for the batman-adv. That would be enough for
SW> the start, and maybe more people will come and join with their routers.

I'll bring plenty of FONs with me, but I can't be there on friday.
Expect my arrival on saturday 11-12am.

Regards, Solon

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[Alexander Morlang]

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Hash: SHA1



Solon Lutz schrieb:
> SW> Hello Solon,
> 
> SW> It would be nice if you could bring some FON-routers (like 5 to 10) that
> SW> we can use for the workshop for the batman-adv. That would be enough for
> SW> the start, and maybe more people will come and join with their routers.
> 
> I'll bring plenty of FONs with me, but I can't be there on friday.
> Expect my arrival on saturday 11-12am.

stupid question:
will this be a batman l2 test or a robin test?

> 
> Regards, Solon

Alex
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Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[Solon Lutz]

Dear Alexander Morlang, on Donnerstag, 1. Mai 2008 at 20:27 you wrote:

> Solon Lutz schrieb:
>> SW> Hello Solon,

>> SW> It would be nice if you could bring some FON-routers (like 5 to 10) that
>> SW> we can use for the workshop for the batman-adv. That would be enough for
>> SW> the start, and maybe more people will come and join with their routers.

>> I'll bring plenty of FONs with me, but I can't be there on friday.
>> Expect my arrival on saturday 11-12am.

> stupid question:
> will this be a batman l2 test or a robin test?

A. Try out BATMAN-L2
B. Try to integrate it into the ROBIN-FW


Best regards,

Solon Lutz


+-----------------------------------------------+
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| Wasgenstrasse 75/13 - 14129 Berlin, Germany   |
| www.pyro.de - phone + 49 - 30 - 48 48 58 58   |
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Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[M. Peterson]

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hi

will it be some day technically possible to use the marvel wifi chip of the
laptop to join the mesh network or is always a router needed?

Why can´t that drawn to the laptops with a software solution ?

Max

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Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[elektra]

Hi Max -

this is solely a issue of malfunctioning drivers/ WiFi cards in ad-hoc 
mode. The proprietary Broadcom driver for 2.4 Linux kernels shipped with 
devices like Linksys WRT54GL, Buffalo WHR-G54S, Asus WL500GP works 
flawlessly.

The Madwifi driver for Atheros cards works but still has issues that 
developers are working on. The best working Madwifi driver seems to come 
with OpenWRT.

This is basically what works at the moment. Most Intel drivers have 
issues (there are firmware issues as well, as I have experienced with 
IPW2200). IPW2100 seems to work, IPW3945 works more or less with some 
tricks (and occasional firmware errors).

Marvel drivers are nowadays shipped with the Linux kernel, but because I 
lack Marvell hardware I couldn't test it in ad-hoc mode.

In general the ad-hoc mode has been widely neglected by manufacturers 
and developers. From the first day I started to work on mesh networks I 
have been battling with firmware/driver issues. But as more and more 
people start using mesh networks the demand for working drivers is 
increasing. So we can expect that - finally, after many years - the 
situation will improve quickly.

cu elektra


> hi
>
> will it be some day technically possible to use the marvel wifi chip 
> of the laptop to join the mesh network or is always a router needed?
>
> Why can´t that drawn to the laptops with a software solution ?
>
> Max
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list
> B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net
> https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
>   

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[elektra]

Hi Phillipe -

well, Freifunk and others around the globe are successfully using mesh
as network infrastructure for their daily communication needs. (I'm
using multihop mesh as internet uplink since 4 years).

Here is how it works: Rather than using a zoo of different hardware use
one that works, and that is the proprietary (I hate to support this!!!)
Broadcom driver for the embedded Broadcom designs used in many 802.11b/g
routers.

Get this and go ahead deploying your network. You'll love it.
Particularly if you use Freifunk firmware. This is one key to success
nowadays.

It is a pitty that Linksys USA is not selling WRT54GL's in the US
(correct me if I'm wrong). So most people there are using Atheros SoC -
Fonera, Meraki - which are all made by Accton/Taiwan. (Again, correct me
if I'm wrong). While people in Europe, Africa and Asia are predominantly
using WRT54GL.

As far as I understood Antonio Anselmi, recent RO.B.I.N. firmware works
stable in ad-hoc with Atheros SoC.

I was working on a system for the Meraka institute in SA, for their
'Massive Mesh' grid, which was build to practically develop/test/verify
mesh routing protocols and drivers. (I was running tests of OLSRD and
all B.A.T.M.A.N. versions there.)

I have patched an older Madwifi which works rock-solid in the Meraka
mesh. There is only one issue: Fragmentation does not work. To be
precise: If you enable it, the cards won't send data packets greater
than the fragmentation value  anymore :-(

AFAIK this issue is still not solved.

Running different Madwifi VAPs in ad-hoc and master mode is something I
didn't test. Last time that I have tested it (quite a while ago) it was
a hack. And I was happy if my machine didn't lock up after a while.
Since I performed those tests several months ago I can't say much about it.

I see it that way: Keep infrastructure clients separated from your mesh
infrastructure - particularly keep clients away from your mesh channel.
Otherwise you will degrade performance by using and re-using the same
channel all the time. Even if Madwifi VAPs work stable-ish this doesn't
perform well. A stupid but working access point is cheap, use the mesh
as an uplink. Well, if all that you want is a very cheap mesh with a
couple of nodes and want to accept performance issues, you may be fine
with VAPs if the driver works.

The new ath5k driver in the most recent Linux kernel works in ad-hoc,
but has range issues. As could be read recently in the news, Atheros is
actively sponsoring development of their hardware for the kernel now
(they are paying a guy to develop drivers).

cu elektra


> Hi Elektra,
>
> I haven't replied on the list about my problems with mesh networks but 
> I think I narrowed my issues to exactly this: I have hardware at home 
> that just doesn't like to see an access point with an ADHOC interface 
> AND an AP interface.
>
> The weird hardware: my macbook pro (atheros based?), and a dell 
> truemobile 1400.
>
> The same setup works flawlessly with a D-Link G-630 PCMCIA.
>
> I don't know what to do to resolve these issues, but I will certainly 
> not deploy a mesh network in these conditions where maybe 30%+ of the 
> hardware doesn't work with adhoc mesh!
>
> Tonight I'll try to switch my access points to 802.11b only and see if 
> it's more compatible for adhoc+ap...
>
> If you have any clue as to what to tweak in Madwifi to help with these 
> compatibility issues, let me know :)
>
> On 22-Apr-08, at 3:00 PM, elektra wrote:
>>
>> In general the ad-hoc mode has been widely neglected by manufacturers 
>> and developers. From the first day I started to work on mesh networks 
>> I have been battling with firmware/driver issues. But as more and 
>> more people start using mesh networks the demand for working drivers 
>> is increasing. So we can expect that - finally, after many years - 
>> the situation will improve quickly.
>

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[dondavis]

>
> It is a pity that Linksys USA is not selling WRT54GL's in the US
> (correct me if I'm wrong). So most people there are using Atheros SoC -
> Fonera, Meraki - which are all made by Accton/Taiwan. (Again, correct me
> if I'm wrong). While people in Europe, Africa and Asia are predominantly
> using WRT54GL.

Uh, hum...  I think this was cleared up, but I have a lot of WRT54gls (in
Texas) and I was also able to buy the T-Mobile version with 32MB RAM.

Cheers,

D Davis

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[M. Peterson]

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thanks, elektra, would it be possible, that an usb stick with wifi chip and
coded in software can be distributed? e.g. by foebud?
we need a solution, where people use their laptop and not need to configure
their routers.
The Laptop or USB-Stick has the wifi chip...
is there a wiki, where all wifi chips are listed and how the bug fixing for
them is going on by whoom?

Maxx

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Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[elektra]

Hi -

I can't recommend using a variety of different wireless hardware with 
different chipsets, drivers, firmware in a network - yet. And I don't 
know any USB stick that I would recommend. If someone reading this list 
has a working recommendation still available for purchase, please add a 
comment.

What we usually do is: Get a router supported by Freifunk/OpenWRT with 
Broadcom/Atheros SoC inside, reflash it with Freifunk Firmware and 
connect it to your notebook. Or: If you have Atheros in your notebook or 
PC  with a self compiled recent Madwifi, fine. Otherwise replace the 
build-in card with something Atheros-based (you may have to modify your 
notebooks BIOS if you use IBM/Lenovo/HP, in order that the machine 
accepts the card), or insert a additional cardbus/express card with 
Atheros chipset, given that you still have a cardbus/express interface 
in your notebook. The Madwifi driver shipped with your favorite Linux 
distro may not work properly, so get it from madwifi.org and compile it 
against the Linux kernel that you are running.

With Atheros you can fix the IBSSID in order to overcome those notorious 
issues with cell-splitting, I also managed to perform this with IPW3945. 
Also OpenWRT/Freifunk does allow this with Broadcom hardware, too.

The command on a Linux-PC  to fix the IBSSID is:

iwconfig <interface> ap <your preferred cell-id like 02:CA:FF:EE:BA:BE>

Note that this is non-standard behavior, and is unlikely to work with 
other cards. Actually upon request from Freifunk this was modified in 
the Madwifi driver.

Old Cisco Aironet 802.11b works for me (mostly) as long as the mesh is 
the only ad-hoc network around... I use it every day, it is running 
stable until I stop it. Also ancient Atmel 76c503 based USB sticks work 
- I used to build mesh routers with them in the old days ;-) Old Prism2, 
2.5, 3 and Prism54 (Hard-Mac only) work, but are susceptible to 
cell-splitting (and may lock up if cell-splitting is already going on in 
your WiFi cell).

I have a Intel IPW3945 in a new notebook that works somehow with a 
little trick under Ubuntu (fix the Cell-ID in managed mode first, switch 
to ad-hoc, set essid, set channel, enable interface) -  but from time to 
time I get hiccups that seem to be associated with firmware errors 
(reported in syslog) - then I need to reset the interface). The 
experience with IPW2200 was even worse with a notebook I used a year 
ago, but I didn't try that recently.

Broadcom would be an option, but the company doesn't provide drivers for 
Linux-PCs. There is an open-source driver but I don't know whether it 
actually works in ad-hoc mode now.

cu elektra



> thanks, elektra, would it be possible, that an usb stick with wifi 
> chip and coded in software can be distributed? e.g. by foebud?
> we need a solution, where people use their laptop and not need to 
> configure their routers.
> The Laptop or USB-Stick has the wifi chip...
> is there a wiki, where all wifi chips are listed and how the bug 
> fixing for them is going on by whoom?
>  
> Maxx
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> B.A.T.M.A.N mailing list
> B.A.T.M.A.N@open-mesh.net
> https://list.open-mesh.net/mm/listinfo/b.a.t.m.a.n
>   

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[elektra]

Hi Philippe -

> The WRT54GL's are available here (I'm in Canada), I'm sure it is also 
> available down in the US.
>
That's good to know.

> We like the Atheros hardware (fonera, meraki) because it's so small in 
> comparison (unless your WRT54GL's are the ones with smaller footprint 
> than the old big blue model?) and because it's less proprietary than 
> broadcom hardware/drivers...
It is small - ok. Things I like about WRT54GL: JTAG (even if you hose
the system completely including bootloader you can restore it), serial
interface, wide range DC-input (5-20 Volts), doesn't die if you reverse
polarity, low power consumption (3.6 Watts under full load). Up to 250mW
transmit power. Makes it ideal for my solar-powered home and developing
countries, outdoor nodes, disaster areas and so on. Open up the housing
and have a look at those *three* individual DC-DC converters for every
internal voltage.

Disclaimer: I am not working or getting paid by Linksys. I'm willing to
utilize everything good that comes the way...

Of course I don't like using proprietary code, this is sad. You know
Linksys/Cisco had to be forced to their own good. They must be selling
those devices like crazy. We have WRTs running on churches in a noisy
area with many competing networks,  each one linked to 15-20 other
single hop mesh nodes. Somewhere around 30 single hop neighbors there is
a limit for the driver/chipset, I suppose. The driver works rock solid.
As soon as Madwifi or ath5k (with OpenHAL) can compete with that I'll be
much more than happy.

If I could utter a wish to a fairy coming my way I would also ask to
have at least one good performing usb chipset for 802.11abgn that works
with Linux as well. I'd start assembling omnis and directionals with
usb-connector immediately ;-)

Cheers,

cu elektra

Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Who can help with BATMAN-ADV integration into ROBIN-FW?

[Alexander Morlang]

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elektra schrieb:
> Hi Max -
> 
> this is solely a issue of malfunctioning drivers/ WiFi cards in ad-hoc 
> mode. The proprietary Broadcom driver for 2.4 Linux kernels shipped with 
> devices like Linksys WRT54GL, Buffalo WHR-G54S, Asus WL500GP works 
> flawlessly.
> 
> The Madwifi driver for Atheros cards works but still has issues that 
> developers are working on. The best working Madwifi driver seems to come 
> with OpenWRT.

i would like to point out that felix from openwrt is looking for bugs to
fix, as he is running out of madwifibugs.

so, if there is a openwrt-madwifi breakage, please contact him.
<removed>
> cu elektra
> 
> 
>> hi
>>
>> will it be some day technically possible to use the marvel wifi chip 
>> of the laptop to join the mesh network or is always a router needed?
>>
>> Why can´t that drawn to the laptops with a software solution ?
>>
>> Max
>> --------
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