From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from diktynna.open-mesh.org (diktynna.open-mesh.org [136.243.236.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C84FCDB47E for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2023 21:38:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from diktynna.open-mesh.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by diktynna.open-mesh.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79CAA8312C for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2023 23:38:07 +0200 (CEST) ARC-Seal: i=2; cv=pass; a=rsa-sha256; d=open-mesh.org; s=20121; t=1697665087; b=CTU16OUSnGcamRngqzk06gNjo1mi2gefRu4ye9S4C7PJStPgwPv2fAgknoAs9e7gnDkDS /UcQN3r4GLbouWnOFzcL6KxfYv3rfORNxk932EvLEAV8v3NyL14Sk1d8OqOO9xiFdLvVg/K XC8GTayDp93OjCSraNKYR5jAlUEvcF0= ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=open-mesh.org; s=20121; t=1697665087; h=from : sender : reply-to : subject : date : message-id : to : cc : mime-version : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : content-id : content-description : resent-date : resent-from : resent-sender : resent-to : resent-cc : resent-message-id : in-reply-to : references : list-id : list-help : list-unsubscribe : list-subscribe : list-post : list-owner : list-archive; bh=qWiuYY3lQGpE+p3eYO2+lLDv7LavzotqmWjE7mK8fFw=; b=cj8JCeuVkdbN6T/itU7eNphRvkSpBGy+aShbYyqXwKtt/MrngiIlsvxQ2p3jY74xp+aKK zCTC7a4s5q1vNEGeOrqOOyVuS8UyUzyXhH8VRl0pMvGfkF3hJKk+Yw3HUmEdqBYdBwIs5j0 UqlDMnFFUIz8QFeBVOZ+sa4BDWz7YC0= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; open-mesh.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com; arc=pass; dmarc=pass (Used From Domain Record) header.from=gmail.com policy.dmarc=quarantine Authentication-Results: open-mesh.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com; arc=pass; dmarc=pass (Used From Domain Record) header.from=gmail.com policy.dmarc=quarantine Received: from mail-ej1-x62c.google.com (mail-ej1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62c]) by diktynna.open-mesh.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4A7480649 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2023 23:37:45 +0200 (CEST) ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=open-mesh.org; s=20121; t=1697665065; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=qWiuYY3lQGpE+p3eYO2+lLDv7LavzotqmWjE7mK8fFw=; b=cdVL2rgmFnWw0qi4vGhUK5pqH075qD1bVohi8Y4Uw6yYPYWkXk7IGPx4OqBdmHI62B3n/8 B9waQy7ly02sE9YSbfoBAm4OMHDb1fcifBzWfG4mfCcTv6S4TF0Oeomidz9kFugzYVdPd6 ydD22lpI4zVvxa5is7O4tfm7P9cjgic= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; diktynna.open-mesh.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=HKFU+oN+; spf=pass (diktynna.open-mesh.org: domain of nico.escande@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::62c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=nico.escande@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com ARC-Seal: i=1; s=20121; d=open-mesh.org; t=1697665065; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ragS1mwSG5rromw65DaZ8bgXhwSrZ1rv1/MI7Q+2Qpserle3mw/DWa1gugAxdgW3PmrlY/ 9YbbZ8tjVtaONs3DmNMygUVTznM8Ln+4VCgHGGRH6kTmhMUq7hEwN+P3E4YB98C09HtkxI qV2+n8asJOgiJWBIepfyMuR1Bz+P5Vw= Received: by mail-ej1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-9c2a0725825so648938266b.2 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2023 14:37:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697665065; x=1698269865; darn=lists.open-mesh.org; h=in-reply-to:references:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:date :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=qWiuYY3lQGpE+p3eYO2+lLDv7LavzotqmWjE7mK8fFw=; b=HKFU+oN+9TXlCofz+dfCYly3z8mTwuyElFihgj9k978oBN6+rYgKQ44BcQb792wyYy VgzY3Hq55glhcmhDRxjqQHxQt29QvisMXeQS2ZkuUomhWEC52uwXFI8c6fdqgivTnvvr Zi8jhzh9pIrMbMZ4LKfV0iljfyh7Ny5Y7j6qA/KM+Nv82FDEdeS2kCPEM86r52/Y0zgm wItHdleVpwOg8LYWzYscIZYKfQcECLf397rEK3zZZ+iKHU8OsStkwRUedQBvFPnOvU8F eXrYBsAeIdkQqB4Vl7/iN+0kU3OpmAZI1CefBJMXanK61iWfp0KlOYObU8IEACw8gmaX lCIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697665065; x=1698269865; h=in-reply-to:references:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:date :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=qWiuYY3lQGpE+p3eYO2+lLDv7LavzotqmWjE7mK8fFw=; b=t4fTOFOhkzkcpPfiqL8o6p4kyCsW65I9TwIY3gZx5Ls4eR/NSm/4CSqNA/aVtXMYE6 WE+mJ9RAevp3cw9xqQ18oozeJxYTpccIcUx8vrYwRttlaxnBnj23e2NmbDVAOWbqC/Hd W9ya+Wba8FmX9a/l9elQUSz5y8jer1ovLJfo/+6+WbjgtkI7IxSkUOLROYaH3625Cx3v 05JgmKXusn7YS9QS9yJVHnsN4vvCAGA6TyoRyCU4b+sY0rD6uHDZDz9XJ95pLrLjXek5 vR/ovozx3fZybvF4FXGpJSvBajM4Dkq5MYwgBsLTrAaFdqRJubvSU0vPf8o/nQTZQ70n xx8g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzKch5CMxx/j4bq3UiiDC+GEcLuHoObBYmiStUY929GSxRpbfBc dz6wqGEuQT6/CN7bpJt5mCJ9DNEumWM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGr1MTNQWq4cWIzR1+zmQICMeRpWUjNSnVw89JjlH5wvN/h7VzKno1+8AialrmhRx2tCJX7dQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:268e:b0:9be:a170:81d with SMTP id bn14-20020a170907268e00b009bea170081dmr318331ejc.25.1697665065017; Wed, 18 Oct 2023 14:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (freebox.vlq16.iliad.fr. [213.36.7.13]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o9-20020a170906358900b009ae587ce128sm2274855ejb.216.2023.10.18.14.37.44 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Oct 2023 14:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 23:37:43 +0200 Message-Id: Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 2/2] batman-adv: Better half duplex penalty estimation From: "Nicolas Escande" To: "Remi Pommarel" , =?utf-8?q?Linus_L=C3=BCssing?= X-Mailer: aerc 0.15.2 References: <09c086e5e68055e52d1f92ba17d0e921084107e7.1695904299.git.repk@triplefau.lt> In-Reply-To: Message-ID-Hash: 7N7DWE4Y3IL4VE2SITHYWKPURKK56727 X-Message-ID-Hash: 7N7DWE4Y3IL4VE2SITHYWKPURKK56727 X-MailFrom: nico.escande@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-b.a.t.m.a.n.lists.open-mesh.org-0; header-match-b.a.t.m.a.n.lists.open-mesh.org-1; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: b.a.t.m.a.n@lists.open-mesh.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.8 Precedence: list List-Id: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Wed Oct 18, 2023 at 9:58 PM CEST, Remi Pommarel wrote: > [...] > >=20 > > Also, this seems to assume that time slices are divided equally. > > That's probably only be true for WiFi drivers that have airtime > > fairness changes integrated? So only recent versions of mt76, > > ath9k and ath10k? Has anyone verified that this works fine not > > only in AP but also in 11s mode? > > I don't know how that would behave on setup that does not have airtime > fairness changes integrated, if you think the current dividing by two > approach is better maybe this can be made a configurable option but that > could be tricky ? It seems to me that airtime fairness is something that most current drivers= aim at doing. Even the mac80211 scheduler is going this route with the itxq wor= k. So I feel like we should assume that with time, most drivers will be. And devices that do not respect airtime fairness will probably not match th= e current TP/2 rule either. > [...] > >=20 > > And a third concern, but we'd probably have this issue with both > > our current and your suggestion: Would we be off again 802.11be > > and its "Multi-Link Operation" in the future? > > This, I have hard time figuring out how MLO would play along with > B.A.T.M.A.N-Adv integration. Unfortunately right now I have no way > to experiment that yet. IIUC the link would be a mix between half and > full duplex, and this would probably complicate things a bit. > > Thanks a lot for your review. For me MLO is hard to take into account. Depending on the drivers (and prob= ably on the firmwares mostly) we do not know if it is/will be used as a real aggregation mechanism or as a way to have 'free' roaming between multiple b= ands. Moreover, currently all the path throughput estimation is based on the expe= cted throuput that the 80211 stack gives us for individual sta. I beleive that v= ery few drivers actually provide a value for it. So IMHO we should do our best to have a good path estimation based on the s= ta estimated throughput, and it should be the mac80211 drivers job to provide = us with an accurate estimated throughput for each sta on a link. And yes in th= e MLO case it will be a hard job indeed...