From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (relay7-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AADA4273DC; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 07:33:36 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=217.70.183.200 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1726644819; cv=none; b=AXW0fwwdBcD9kpV8GKFLA8t44ZGxfbOp+6WSwwAQao5HRul30KqPZZiIVVgtG66aDeUDIA2tjyf86/IjE41hEGQJSSy8TnOaBsZ6KDmLYuEZ3MLHBilLDPfJyO/30BYX7OTBmcMeAH8AxakoNcEBebOUGLPnX9mWke/smNyW928= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1726644819; c=relaxed/simple; bh=KDWSO/DlRC22nIf1l+JdQKl0mmC4pDrhGOX9s3FmLtU=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:From:To:Cc:References: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=juZ5o/3WGTX7C+JeWPpETWAJjnfMm0PClm6wftBntZMtG2Rucc+IuwINV0iqZp1rnscbiuADCBSyCslUmRtWvbf8A7T3A3QtRGycNCBkDvNGkl3TAzCAVootu3tN3O1hVSHuPYvrUawg1cJSWgRGXfRa1WtMdH+F6eZhnzgsEWg= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=gtucker.io; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gtucker.io; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gtucker.io header.i=@gtucker.io header.b=g3CMuhbs; arc=none smtp.client-ip=217.70.183.200 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=gtucker.io Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gtucker.io Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gtucker.io header.i=@gtucker.io header.b="g3CMuhbs" Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1DBD020009; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 07:33:29 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gtucker.io; s=gm1; t=1726644813; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=1BGtCYOQcOECE4KEQhNC5Aph6S84pDq76u98tDqbbS0=; b=g3CMuhbsnZqxP5ZdE9M0GmBkodlm/f5cgZdPJbGcQbMI6zoGvjEzwCLC59BfFh8vVX5Ja3 iqpVlJuYbsbrHoThh0P81XEn1dRrY3HbU4WlDcTWZ3rtLbPFUPwE3RqwI91mKZo8+Fjbcb oDvyLirXjsJilYWKSGvlQFhOOLHmaSozYmc6TTQpDp2PCiUmUkAbD9AcU+JqUvuS5Ck+YN FkRjgOT0H2HEensyYWVrKpkg/1qu6SgeSvx3pK3vcw3krRAJtMokZFREKv65m8xyc+VSRd oP2sMRZpMOdll0f/SoLBbYTJP9NpVu37XrHBeOTELLRSeuRaE7eBy0xOXtdg/A== Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2024 09:33:28 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: bpf@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Plumbers Testing MC potential topic: specialised toolchains Content-Language: en-US From: Guillaume Tucker To: Nathan Chancellor Cc: Nick Desaulniers , Miguel Ojeda , Alexei Starovoitov , Arnd Bergmann , llvm@lists.linux.dev, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, yurinnick@meta.com, bpf@vger.kernel.org, Sasha Levin , Shuah Khan , automated-testing@lists.yoctoproject.org References: <20240709053031.GB2120498@thelio-3990X> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-GND-Sasl: gtucker@gtucker.io Hello, On 14/07/2024 1:03 am, Guillaume Tucker wrote: >>> very interested to hear whether people feel it would be >>> beneficial to work towards a more exhaustive solution supported >>> upstream: kernel.org Docker images or something close such as >>> Dockerfiles in Git or another type of images with all the >>> dependencies included. How does that sound? >> A few thoughts around this: >> >> Having first party Dockerfiles could be useful but how would they be >> used? Perhaps building a kernel in such a container could be plumbed >> into Kbuild, such that the container manager could be invoked to build >> the image if it does not exist then build the kernel in that image? This >> might be a lofty idea but it would remove a lot of the friction of using >> containers to build the kernel so that more people would adopt it? > That's a great idea, and I think it's why having a live > discussion at Plumbers would make sense as it's going to be > harder to reach answers in a thread like this. In fact I went ahead and made a small PoC for this as an experiment: https://gitlab.com/gtucker/linux/-/commits/linux-6.7-make-container >> Another aspect of this is discoverability. I think a big problem with a >> project like TuxMake is that while it is developed for the kernel >> community, it is not a first party project, so without word of mouth, >> there is not a great way for other people to hear about it. >> >> I think it would be a good idea to try and solicit feedback from the >> greater kernel community at large to ensure that whatever solution is >> decided on will work for both testing systems and >> developers/maintainers. I think that a first party solution for having a >> consistent and easy to set up/work with build environment has been >> needed for some time but unfortunately, I am not sure how much >> discussion around this problem has happened directly with those folks. > Yes, that was my intention here with this thread to start > widening the audience with the upstream community. My > understanding is that the issue hasn't been suitably framed to > enable constructive discussion yet. I'll consider submitting a > proposal for the Toolchain track next. > >>> [1]https://lpc.events/event/18/contributions/1665/ >>> [2]https://hub.docker.com/u/tuxmake >>> [3]https://www.linaro.org/blog/tuxmake-building-linux-with-kernel-org-toolchains/ >> As an aside, consider using me as a point of contact for anything >> ClangBuiltLinux related instead of Nick going forward, he has stepped >> away to focus on LLVM libc for the immediate future. > Noted, thank you. > >> Thanks a lot for bring up this topic. I think it is important to work on >> and I look forward to talking through this at Plumbers. > That would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks already for your > insightful feedback. The talk is happening today, slides are available: https://lpc.events/event/18/contributions/1928/ I'll reply later this week with a follow-up from the live discussions at Plumbers and maybe this will lead to some RFCs or a few patches. Thanks, Guillaume