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Tue, 18 Aug 2026 11:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6335b664-a04c-40c5-ab95-ba459bf582ab@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2026 14:02:06 -0400 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: cgroups@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [systemd-devel] Purpose of init.scope To: SCOTT FIELDS , Lennart Poettering Cc: systemd development , Linux cgroups development , Alyssa Ross References: Content-Language: en-US From: Demi Marie Obenour Autocrypt: addr=demiobenour@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49yB+l2nipd aq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYfbWpr/si88QKgyGSV Z7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnT DlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7MMPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPx wcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9Hzx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR 6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvUT1vjyJ1ySrqtUXWQ4XlZyoEFUfpJxJoN0A9HCxmHGVckzTRl 5FMWo8TCniHynNXsBtDQbabt7aNEOaAJdE7to0AH3T/Bvwzcp0ZJtBk0EM6YeMLtotUut7h2 Bkg1b//r6bTBswMBXVJ5H44Qf0+eKeUg7whSC9qpYOzzrm7+0r9F5u3qF8ZTx55TJc2g656C 9a1P1MYVysLvkLvS4H+crmxA/i08Tc1h+x9RRvqba4lSzZ6/Tmt60DPM5Sc4R0nSm9BBff0N m0bSNRS8InXdO1Aq3362QKX2NOwcL5YaStwODNyZUqF7izjK4QARAQABzTxEZW1pIE1hcmll IE9iZW5vdXIgKGxvdmVyIG9mIGNvZGluZykgPGRlbWlvYmVub3VyQGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CwXgE EwECACIFAlp+A0oCGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJELKItV//nCLBhr8Q AK/xrb4wyi71xII2hkFBpT59ObLN+32FQT7R3lbZRjVFjc6yMUjOb1H/hJVxx+yo5gsSj5LS 9AwggioUSrcUKldfA/PKKai2mzTlUDxTcF3vKx6iMXKA6AqwAw4B57ZEJoMM6egm57TV19kz PMc879NV2nc6+elaKl+/kbVeD3qvBuEwsTe2Do3HAAdrfUG/j9erwIk6gha/Hp9yZlCnPTX+ VK+xifQqt8RtMqS5R/S8z0msJMI/ajNU03kFjOpqrYziv6OZLJ5cuKb3bZU5aoaRQRDzkFIR 6aqtFLTohTo20QywXwRa39uFaOT/0YMpNyel0kdOszFOykTEGI2u+kja35g9TkH90kkBTG+a EWttIht0Hy6YFmwjcAxisSakBuHnHuMSOiyRQLu43ej2+mDWgItLZ48Mu0C3IG1seeQDjEYP tqvyZ6bGkf2Vj+L6wLoLLIhRZxQOedqArIk/Sb2SzQYuxN44IDRt+3ZcDqsPppoKcxSyd1Ny 2tpvjYJXlfKmOYLhTWs8nwlAlSHX/c/jz/ywwf7eSvGknToo1Y0VpRtoxMaKW1nvH0OeCSVJ itfRP7YbiRVc2aNqWPCSgtqHAuVraBRbAFLKh9d2rKFB3BmynTUpc1BQLJP8+D5oNyb8Ts4x Xd3iV/uD8JLGJfYZIR7oGWFLP4uZ3tkneDfYzsFNBFp+A0oBEAC9ynZI9LU+uJkMeEJeJyQ/ 8VFkCJQPQZEsIGzOTlPnwvVna0AS86n2Z+rK7R/usYs5iJCZ55/JISWd8xD57ue0eB47bcJv VqGlObI2DEG8TwaW0O0duRhDgzMEL4t1KdRAepIESBEA/iPpI4gfUbVEIEQuqdqQyO4GAe+M kD0Hy5JH/0qgFmbaSegNTdQg5iqYjRZ3ttiswalql1/iSyv1WYeC1OAs+2BLOAT2NEggSiVO txEfgewsQtCWi8H1SoirakIfo45Hz0tk/Ad9ZWh2PvOGt97Ka85o4TLJxgJJqGEnqcFUZnJJ riwoaRIS8N2C8/nEM53jb1sH0gYddMU3QxY7dYNLIUrRKQeNkF30dK7V6JRH7pleRlf+wQcN fRAIUrNlatj9TxwivQrKnC9aIFFHEy/0mAgtrQShcMRmMgVlRoOA5B8RTulRLCmkafvwuhs6 dCxN0GNAORIVVFxjx9Vn7OqYPgwiofZ6SbEl0hgPyWBQvE85klFLZLoj7p+joDY1XNQztmfA rnJ9x+YV4igjWImINAZSlmEcYtd+xy3Li/8oeYDAqrsnrOjb+WvGhCykJk4urBog2LNtcyCj kTs7F+WeXGUo0NDhbd3Z6AyFfqeF7uJ3D5hlpX2nI9no/ugPrrTVoVZAgrrnNz0iZG2DVx46 x913pVKHl5mlYQARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJafgNKAhsMAAoJELKItV//nCLBwNIP/AiIHE8b oIqReFQyaMzxq6lE4YZCZNj65B/nkDOvodSiwfwjjVVE2V3iEzxMHbgyTCGA67+Bo/d5aQGj gn0TPtsGzelyQHipaUzEyrsceUGWYoKXYyVWKEfyh0cDfnd9diAm3VeNqchtcMpoehETH8fr RHnJdBcjf112PzQSdKC6kqU0Q196c4Vp5HDOQfNiDnTf7gZSj0BraHOByy9LEDCLhQiCmr+2 E0rW4tBtDAn2HkT9uf32ZGqJCn1O+2uVfFhGu6vPE5qkqrbSE8TG+03H8ecU2q50zgHWPdHM OBvy3EhzfAh2VmOSTcRK+tSUe/u3wdLRDPwv/DTzGI36Kgky9MsDC5gpIwNbOJP2G/q1wT1o Gkw4IXfWv2ufWiXqJ+k7HEi2N1sree7Dy9KBCqb+ca1vFhYPDJfhP75I/VnzHVssZ/rYZ9+5 1yDoUABoNdJNSGUYl+Yh9Pw9pE3Kt4EFzUlFZWbE4xKL/NPno+z4J9aWemLLszcYz/u3XnbO vUSQHSrmfOzX3cV4yfmjM5lewgSstoxGyTx2M8enslgdXhPthZlDnTnOT+C+OTsh8+m5tos8 HQjaPM01MKBiAqdPgksm1wu2DrrwUi6ChRVTUBcj6+/9IJ81H2P2gJk3Ls3AVIxIffLoY34E +MYSfkEjBz0E8CLOcAw7JIwAaeBT In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 8/17/26 07:32, SCOTT FIELDS wrote: > For anyone interested: >=20 > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/1116 >=20 > "This moves PID 1 into a new "init.scope" implicit scope unit in the ro= ot > slice. This is necessary since on the unified hierarchy cgroups may > either contain subgroups or processes but not both. PID 1 hence has to > move out of the root cgroup (strictly speaking the root cgroup is the > only one where processes and subgroups are still allowed, but in order > to support containers nicey, we move PID 1 into the new scope in all > cases.) This new unit is also used on legacy hierarchy setups. It's > actually pretty useful on all systems, as it can then be used to filter= > journal messages coming from PID 1, and so on." Oh, that explains why PID 1 is not just left in the root cgroup. I misse= d the container use-case. The project I am working on will never run in a container so that is not a concern. > On Mi, 29.07.26 16:13, Demi Marie Obenour (demiobenour@gmail.com) wrote= : >=20 >> What is the purpose of having PID 1 in init.scope?=C2=A0 Is it functio= nally >> necessary, or is it solely for consistency with when systemd is >> running in a container or as a user service manager? >=20 > PID 1 needs to live somehwere, so that's where we put it. Where else > would you put it? >=20 > Lennart --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) --------------DI3aLEw6nTplXocJLEjNjXb6-- --------------tJ1aTkv5a38fEaCDqNperDmH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEopQtqVJW1aeuo9/sszaHOrMp8lMFAmqEnh8ACgkQszaHOrMp 8lMEUBAAgwB1AXgKbOgHubj8pVWQH4uP+n+WLSRRyUhCsmZDiVjD/5m97TxTv/ZJ QLzlViSL3j1GXpqT/ynZjLCWkkGZdoiybILIEiCh1BlkMqbTpr5Xan6UA38mc3q8 8J2wBB3c5bXneSmLrTktd0CrifODmFoDOFEfRxnkEZyvfuC4J2L+aYCVXJXfnqJB zoA8EUErZpMPoyykrqkP8zlwSMCUcIL2VozE6rSV+07TddHgOQTZRrZ9Il/BWm1D o5w5nUU4pvaCp1YI7SOS0yG/afp8YPAQw4vBYrsQBJ+CN3N+lgZ/dEDBGd/UAu1v C4256iBzJazzqFSYtkKZuSXxDgIA927dtitU+G9X1QwTLQzBzgKtgoo5063lwlmV PRSl8jrRr5TbY6DGlrP0M/hg5i71Z8Ul5mTvoH5ixhk56WlHwjwrRopMI4k/tZEm naEYSbalcMt1cmyCSI4/FGFpmVs/oND1yqhCXeKY5bkAyKaUEcQKBrohi/a2GOTW 7O7821RPxfQXCTTi8sywARvGTDhfmAYhgkk+RMiuJ/WGrf9xhAoB4ND9nQJvUZu/ ubY5SsKkGuY9pGp/ezg9EUB+isO2OgnLjJxmQVWK36EOQHjInA6rDLiLFH+GA2oz rg/gfcvEKe2XBSAUiWkFQY1l+oiwrm/oHiCRm1FPFKFJEorBoKE= =Ic6I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------tJ1aTkv5a38fEaCDqNperDmH--