Mailing list inventing addresses for people

Mailing list inventing addresses for people

[Pavel Machek]

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Hi!

Mailing list is doing something ugly with From: addresses. I'm sending
this email from @denx.de account, but it will forge From address to be
something else. Why is it doing that and who can fix it?

It is annoying as it will break signatures, and it makes communication
difficult. Plus, it forged my email address and invented fake one.

Best regards,
								Pavel
-- 
DENX Software Engineering GmbH,        Managing Director: Erika Unter
HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany

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Re: Mailing list inventing addresses for people

[Jan Kiszka]

On 13.03.25 13:34, Pavel Machek wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Mailing list is doing something ugly with From: addresses. I'm sending
> this email from @denx.de account, but it will forge From address to be
> something else. Why is it doing that and who can fix it?
> 

Can you point out an example? This one received us as "pavel@denx.de",
see also https://lore.kernel.org/cip-dev/Z9LQ6u3m4LRFTCPM@duo.ucw.cz/raw.

Jan

> It is annoying as it will break signatures, and it makes communication
> difficult. Plus, it forged my email address and invented fake one.
> 
> Best regards,
> 								Pavel


-- 
Siemens AG, Foundational Technologies
Linux Expert Center

Re: [cip-dev] Mailing list inventing addresses for people

[Michael Adler]

Hi,

maybe it depends on the mail client what is actually being shown to the user.
For example, I see the following mail headers (and my mail client ignores the Resent-From header):

...
From: "Pavel Machek via lists.cip-project.org" <pavel=denx.de@lists.cip-project.org>
Resent-From: pavel@denx.de
...

Do you mean that with "invented address"?

Kind Regards,
  Michael

-- 
Michael Adler

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Re: [cip-dev] Mailing list inventing addresses for people

[Pavel Machek]

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Hi!

> maybe it depends on the mail client what is actually being shown to the user.
> For example, I see the following mail headers (and my mail client ignores the Resent-From header):
> 
> ...
> From: "Pavel Machek via lists.cip-project.org" <pavel=denx.de@lists.cip-project.org>
> Resent-From: pavel@denx.de
> ...
> 
> Do you mean that with "invented address"?

Well -- this one is not my email address: pavel=denx.de@lists.cip-project.org 

This one is: pavel@denx.de

I don't want people to bookmark pavel=denx.de@lists.cip-project.org ,
for example.

We talked about it on IRC: http://ircbot.wl.linuxfoundation.org/meetings/cip/2025/03/cip.2025-03-13-13.01.log.html

The mangled address + reply-to to the list means that it is impossible
to send direct reply to the user, which we agreed is "not
optimal". From the irc discussion it looked like address mangling is
now common feature due to DMARC/DKIM.

Best regards,
								Pavel
-- 
DENX Software Engineering GmbH,        Managing Director: Erika Unter
HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany

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Re: [cip-dev] Mailing list inventing addresses for people

[Paul Barker]

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On 13/03/2025 13:56, Pavel Machek wrote:
> Hi!
> 
>> maybe it depends on the mail client what is actually being shown to the user.
>> For example, I see the following mail headers (and my mail client ignores the Resent-From header):
>>
>> ...
>> From: "Pavel Machek via lists.cip-project.org" <pavel=denx.de@lists.cip-project.org>
>> Resent-From: pavel@denx.de
>> ...
>>
>> Do you mean that with "invented address"?
> 
> Well -- this one is not my email address: pavel=denx.de@lists.cip-project.org 
> 
> This one is: pavel@denx.de
> 
> I don't want people to bookmark pavel=denx.de@lists.cip-project.org ,
> for example.
> 
> We talked about it on IRC: http://ircbot.wl.linuxfoundation.org/meetings/cip/2025/03/cip.2025-03-13-13.01.log.html
> 
> The mangled address + reply-to to the list means that it is impossible
> to send direct reply to the user, which we agreed is "not
> optimal". From the irc discussion it looked like address mangling is
> now common feature due to DMARC/DKIM.

I don't tend to notice these as I fetch messages from lore.kernel.org
where there is no mangling.

These mangled email addresses seem to be creeping into commits though -
compare the email on lore [1] with the commit [2]. The email has:

    From: Paul Barker <paul.barker.ct@bp.renesas.com>

But the commit now has:

    Author: Paul Barker via lists.cip-project.org <paul.barker.ct=bp.renesas.com@lists.cip-project.org>

I think we should be careful with these.

Thanks,
    
[1]: https://lore.kernel.org/cip-dev/20250221164929.357460-1-paul.barker.ct@bp.renesas.com/
[2]: https://web.git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/cip/linux-cip.git/commit/?id=19f5c3971881ce892731b500299be665703586b4

-- 
Paul Barker

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Re: [cip-dev] Mailing list inventing addresses for people

[Jan Kiszka]

On 17.03.25 10:35, Paul Barker wrote:
> On 13/03/2025 13:56, Pavel Machek wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>>> maybe it depends on the mail client what is actually being shown to the user.
>>> For example, I see the following mail headers (and my mail client ignores the Resent-From header):
>>>
>>> ...
>>> From: "Pavel Machek via lists.cip-project.org" <pavel=denx.de@lists.cip-project.org>
>>> Resent-From: pavel@denx.de
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Do you mean that with "invented address"?
>>
>> Well -- this one is not my email address: pavel=denx.de@lists.cip-project.org 
>>
>> This one is: pavel@denx.de
>>
>> I don't want people to bookmark pavel=denx.de@lists.cip-project.org ,
>> for example.
>>
>> We talked about it on IRC: http://ircbot.wl.linuxfoundation.org/meetings/cip/2025/03/cip.2025-03-13-13.01.log.html
>>
>> The mangled address + reply-to to the list means that it is impossible
>> to send direct reply to the user, which we agreed is "not
>> optimal". From the irc discussion it looked like address mangling is
>> now common feature due to DMARC/DKIM.
> 
> I don't tend to notice these as I fetch messages from lore.kernel.org
> where there is no mangling.
> 

Same for me (nntp primarily, patchwork would be another option).

> These mangled email addresses seem to be creeping into commits though -
> compare the email on lore [1] with the commit [2]. The email has:
> 
>     From: Paul Barker <paul.barker.ct@bp.renesas.com>
> 
> But the commit now has:
> 
>     Author: Paul Barker via lists.cip-project.org <paul.barker.ct=bp.renesas.com@lists.cip-project.org>
> 
> I think we should be careful with these.
> 

Indeed. Happened to me in the past as well, but now I have local tooling
in place that warns here when it checks from: against signed-off-by.

Jan

PS: Pavel, you wanted to forward a message to me where the sender is
mangled and the "reply-to" is set to the list.

-- 
Siemens AG, Foundational Technologies
Linux Expert Center

Re: [cip-dev] Mailing list inventing addresses for people

[Pavel Machek]

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Hi!

> Indeed. Happened to me in the past as well, but now I have local tooling
> in place that warns here when it checks from: against signed-off-by.
> 
> Jan
> 
> PS: Pavel, you wanted to forward a message to me where the sender is
> mangled and the "reply-to" is set to the list.

I can't get you full message. Mailing list is stupid enough to include
secrets (!) in it. Here are important headers:

From: "Quirin Gylstorff via lists.cip-project.org" <quirin.gylstorff=siemens.com@lists.cip-project.org>
To: jan.kiszka@siemens.com,
        felix.moessbauer@siemens.com,
        cip-dev@lists.cip-project.org,
        gokhan.cetin@siemens.com
Subject: [cip-dev][isar-cip-core][RFC] Add documentation to provide project specific signing methods
Message-ID: <20250317112102.609922-1-Quirin.Gylstorff@siemens.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list cip-dev@lists.cip-project.org
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2025 04:21:08 -0700
Resent-From: quirin.gylstorff@siemens.com
Reply-To: cip-dev@lists.cip-project.org

I'll get you redacted copy in private email

Best regards,
								Pavel
-- 
DENX Software Engineering GmbH,        Managing Director: Erika Unter
HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany

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