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From: "David Hildenbrand (Arm)" <david@kernel.org>
To: Lance Yang <lance.yang@linux.dev>,
	muchun.song@linux.dev, research@deepseek.com
Cc: sj@kernel.org, mst@redhat.com, damon@lists.linux.dev,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, virtualization@lists.linux.dev,
	ryncsn@gmail.com, kunwu.chan@gmail.com, lianux.mm@gmail.com,
	baohua@kernel.org, xueyuan.chen21@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [FYI] DAMON and virtio-balloon in DeepSeek's DSec paper
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2026 12:03:04 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <59c4417d-b62b-4b40-9efb-e704b4162573@kernel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20260925081504.23569-1-lance.yang@linux.dev>

On 9/25/26 10:15, Lance Yang wrote:
> +Cc DeepSeek and Muchun
> 
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2026 at 09:04:41AM +0200, David Hildenbrand (Arm) wrote:
>> On 9/25/26 07:44, Lance Yang wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I was reading DeepSeek's new DSec paper[1] and found a nice use of DAMON
>>> and virtio-balloon:
>>>
>>> With this kind of workload, an agent may read a file once and never touch
>>> it again, while those pages remain in the guest page cache. Without memory
>>> pressure in the guest, they can stay cached even though the host would
>>> like that memory back ...
>>>
>>> The trick is DAMON + virtio-balloon free-page reporting :) DAMON reclaims
>>
>> Heh, I read "virtio-balloon" and thought "balloon inflation/deflation, what year
>> is it?!". Free-page reporting makes much more sense.
>>
>>> cold file pages from the guest page cache; buddy gets a chance to coalesce
>>> them into reportable blocks, and virtio-balloon passes those blocks to
>>> Firecracker. Firecracker can then drop the host backing with MADV_DONTNEED.
>>
>> When I was at RH we were looking at this issue as well. virtio-pmem was one way
>> of avoiding the page cache in VM entirely. But it has its own limitations.
> 
> YES, they enable virtio-pmem with DAX for the read-only EROFS base-image
> and toolkit layers, while using DAMON with balloon free-page reporting to
> reclaim cold file pages from the guest page cache on larger writable disks.
> 
> They also point out that the guest must allocate struct page metadata for
> the entire pmem-backed address range. So virtio-pmem is not free either :)
> 
> BTW, Muchun recently posted a pretty cool series for exactly that:
> 
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-mm/20260903122128.12264-1-songmuchun@bytedance.com/

Yes, that will be helpful in that regard.

> 
> (It shares vmemmap backing until a DAX fault needs private metadata,
> avoiding the full per-PFN cost up front.)
> 
> I have a feeling the DeepSeek team will be watching this one closely :P
;)

-- 
Cheers,

David

  reply	other threads:[~2026-09-25 10:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 21+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-09-25  5:44 [FYI] DAMON and virtio-balloon in DeepSeek's DSec paper Lance Yang
2026-09-25  5:57 ` Lian Wang
2026-09-25  6:46   ` KunWu Chan
2026-09-25  7:04 ` David Hildenbrand (Arm)
2026-09-25  7:28   ` Lian Wang
2026-09-25  8:15   ` Lance Yang
2026-09-25 10:03     ` David Hildenbrand (Arm) [this message]
2026-09-25 10:16     ` Gao Xiang
2026-09-25 10:27       ` Gao Xiang
2026-09-25 10:13 ` SJ Park
2026-09-29 12:32 ` Jialiang Huang
2026-09-29 12:41   ` Gao Xiang
2026-09-29 12:50     ` Jialiang Huang
2026-09-30  3:36     ` Muchun Song
2026-09-30  7:24       ` Gao Xiang
2026-09-30  9:37         ` Muchun Song
2026-09-30 10:33           ` Gao Xiang
2026-09-29 16:56   ` SJ Park
2026-09-30  3:07     ` Lian Wang
2026-09-30  8:08       ` SJ Park
2026-09-29 18:14   ` Pratyush Mallick

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