From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (lindbergh.monkeyblade.net [23.128.96.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD29B372 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 00:35:46 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gibson.dropbear.id.au header.i=@gibson.dropbear.id.au header.b="Oz2N1DZJ" Received: from gandalf.ozlabs.org (gandalf.ozlabs.org [150.107.74.76]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD377EE for ; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 17:35:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gibson.dropbear.id.au; s=201602; t=1698021341; bh=RWKjDsK6hwFKGy5XGXtxOgzbqV7DP68Nv7F8oPZvJgE=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=Oz2N1DZJqp67CxCudR4gWk9pPftXox8u9JFKPj8UM/nMC1Gh2ZMi3vGuokNtJylZu mjVzT6xxr0P5KOdSPhRqoVwo5XqLN5CwoCppLweObAZq5PmXr0kRW9nqPdpBH/Rjvt d6/jEeyCfmBBaxT12PU4XOYEivQhmSmZl61nq++U= Received: by gandalf.ozlabs.org (Postfix, from userid 1007) id 4SDGSY0GYbz4wxX; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 11:35:41 +1100 (AEDT) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 11:32:37 +1100 From: David Gibson To: "Robert P. J. Day" Cc: devicetree spec mailing list Subject: Re: Definition of "should" seems inconsistent with idea of "deprecated" Message-ID: References: Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: devicetree-spec@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5/ni6pho7uCkNCkL" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: --5/ni6pho7uCkNCkL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 05:08:48AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023, David Gibson wrote: >=20 > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 07:03:56AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > > > > > Reading DTSpec v0.4, near the beginning: > > > > > > "The word should is used to indicate that among several possibilities > > > one is recommended as particularly suitable, without mentioning or > > > excluding others; or that a certain course of action is preferred but > > > not necessarily required; or that (in the negative form) a certain > > > course of action is deprecated but not prohibited (should equals is > > > recommended that)." > > > > > > It seems contradictory to suggest that "should" implies > > > "recommended" but, in the negative sense, it can also support > > > > I believe that by "in the negative form", it means when something says > > "should not".. > > > > > "deprecated", which typically suggests something that is *not* > > > recommended but is nonetheless acceptable. > > > > ..in which case being similar to "deprecated" makes sense. > > > > I will agree that saying "in the negative form", parenthesized, > > amongst a cluster of interacting clauses is probably not a great way > > of expressing this, and it might be clearer to explicitly give a > > meaning to "should not". >=20 > Yes, I see that I misread it somewhat and it's not as bad as I > thought originally, but it definitely would be clearer if the concept > of "should not" was combined with the idea of, say: >=20 > "Should not" means that, even if a particular possibility is > discouraged or deprecated, it is still acceptable as a viable choice. >=20 > Or something like that. "in the negative form" is way too wordy for > saying simply, "should not". Yeah. I guess it covers "shouldn't" as well, and maybe there are other ways of negating the sense of "should" that I'm not thinking of at the moment. Not convinced that's a good trade off, though. --=20 David Gibson | I'll have my music baroque, and my code david AT gibson.dropbear.id.au | minimalist, thank you. NOT _the_ _other_ | _way_ _around_! http://www.ozlabs.org/~dgibson --5/ni6pho7uCkNCkL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEO+dNsU4E3yXUXRK2zQJF27ox2GcFAmU1vwwACgkQzQJF27ox 2GfnCw//V5O0sAjP89GAJaQ+QUSzaehEnnyf5HAvee4lOOqw2MN2rts+drIwm5oB qdd1r2qq2eWYjtraNFmKieHksVp60GGqGS1ITsK4xri57E+GontRLmnVC3ec6tSf gctiZFYIeFBKl3QcMceQ+2Jdy+vJ+IfIbEVfsckUnJKsYmHAzxkyEW9zG8bWh36A h6QEHNFDDe1ZVsU4OUDjSokpsioq9e6r6+xiVLOJ8SI0s57X6RUmGLDqKYouf6de ZYOuWNsg4h+4vg7T1BRpKZV1cboRDE8GfODJR7NySQk2LloMAQRCSAfupTAJWUhM KShquCJEChk7t6nuVOmhdxOXd2K+sT126Mh7s888sbtJ6/WtMXi3Swe0+Bv9WOF9 aMxp1zYi3twAh2ZxHfXcW+5FRjQqjLqiq+fUJTUUodCFRsPUJEk6uF1NIHo7+20d N8nmi73MRKTBYBTeL/tyNGGJ8fcWeHrmeyLEtaMxEY9xxJHFoaVxmoAU3cw/8uhU tiR2tzot+9p0b8kH39NbQ7BiEyKmEYKek7FMPOA2s+WItv1RcRUjXwYQffWDQfzK nqP88E3iBXj5v2udFgwBAnBFJDDGaGjKicBEuUZtZFOH2o+PolCLBfIEh+tw69kR lS1SfcJDOrem7k6SHAdIDAflWt3y8vrROXo5I4LWvY2kdSNpG+4= =12Ea -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5/ni6pho7uCkNCkL--