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[72.109.255.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j10-20020adff54a000000b00304b5b2f5ffsm28434465wrp.53.2023.05.13.23.31.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 13 May 2023 23:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 01:31:23 -0500 From: Oskari Pirhonen To: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz Cc: Ard Biesheuvel , dkiper@net-space.pl, The development of GNU GRUB , distributions@lists.linux.dev Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 1/6] ia64: Remove support Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz , Ard Biesheuvel , dkiper@net-space.pl, The development of GNU GRUB , distributions@lists.linux.dev References: <20230511120640.3518732-1-ardb@kernel.org> <20230511120640.3518732-2-ardb@kernel.org> <8b8ef9b94cb8ce54e24bb2d1954fa35af11636f4.camel@physik.fu-berlin.de> <5c434d4d76f74a0f2ac2eb6e12d5fe56eb8a05b0.camel@physik.fu-berlin.de> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: distributions@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rk4d0M+X3XYaTCmQ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5c434d4d76f74a0f2ac2eb6e12d5fe56eb8a05b0.camel@physik.fu-berlin.de> --rk4d0M+X3XYaTCmQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 12:41:47 +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > Hello Ard! >=20 > On Thu, 2023-05-11 at 16:29 +0200, Ard Biesheuvel wrote: > > > > Feel free to keep using it, but please stop demanding that our peop= le > > > > keep wasting their time on it. If you want to support it in Debian, > > > > you can carry it as a downstream patch and shoulder the maintenance > > > > burden. > > >=20 > > > Who is "our people"? Do you think that you are part of the community = and > > > I am not? I don't think this kind of hostility is justified. Neither = you > > > nor I own this project. > > >=20 > >=20 > > Apologies - I had meant to type 'other people' not 'our people'. I > > rarely contribute to GRUB myself, so I wouldn't consider myself more a > > part of this community than anyone else. > >=20 > > But my point remains: I have inferred from your response (and your > > involvement in similar discussions around the Linux kernel) that you > > would prefer Itanium support to be retained, right? >=20 > Not necessarily. I am generally not opposed to removing ia64 support, but= it > should happen in a coordinated form where downstreams and users are invol= ved. >=20 > Just dropping support from random projects without prior coordination see= ms > like the wrong approach to me. I would suggest posting your plans to the > distributions mailing list [1], Debian's ia64 mailing list [2], the Gentoo > developer mailing list [3], the Linux ia64 mailing list [4] and maybe the > NetBSD ia64 mailing list [5]. >=20 > If you don't get any objections there, I am not going to object either. I= just > want this to happen in an ordered manner. >=20 For future reference, might I suggest the following "distributions" list as well: distributions@lists.linux.dev It's a relatively new list for cross-distro collaboration/PSAs. You can find the archives here [6]. - Oskari > > So could you explain who you think should carry the maintenance > > burden? IA64 will be the only EFI architecture in GRUB that does not > > boot via an EFI stub in Linux, and this deviation means that retaining > > support for it is going to take actual developer and maintainer > > bandwidth. GRUB gets very little of that as it is, which means that > > keeping IA64 support alive comes at the cost of worse support for > > other architectures and platforms. (The series that this patch is part > > of breaks the ia64 build, and i i struggle to see why i should care > > about that) > >=20 > > Very few of those people have access to such systems to begin with > > (probably none), and the companies that manufactured them stopped > > supporting them in the open source years ago, so testing these changes > > is not straight-forward, making it unreasonable to demand this from > > contributors. Also, it is unclear to me why the needs of the few > > people that do still run such a system are not served by a build based > > on today's GRUB tree, and why ia64 support needs to be retained going > > forward. >=20 > Well, that's why I am suggesting to coordinate this properly and ask pote= ntial > users of the code whether they are okay with the removal. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > [1] https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/distributions > [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-ia64/ > [3] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/ > [4] https://marc.info/?l=3Dlinux-ia64&r=3D1&w=3D1 > [5] https://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-ia64/tindex.html >=20 [6] https://lore.kernel.org/distributions/ > --=20 > .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > : :' : Debian Developer > `. `' Physicist > `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Grub-devel mailing list > Grub-devel@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel --rk4d0M+X3XYaTCmQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYIAB0WIQQfOU+JeXjo4uxN6vCp8he9GGIfEQUCZGCANQAKCRCp8he9GGIf Ecg6AQCPxOQnOFLcjDYkBPaYPMnE+O5VMWSu91wDfhxbRDyn/QD/TujtJmpTt6dT rzu6QANcs5TRM7ZLyJSH2PVaBgyEVwQ= =65Ov -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rk4d0M+X3XYaTCmQ--