From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87503C4332B for ; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 14:48:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58F1F20B1F for ; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 14:48:16 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="E1VVcZwF" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 58F1F20B1F Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B604A6EA27; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 14:48:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E49F6EA1A for ; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 14:48:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id j15so1857842lfk.6 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 07:48:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version; bh=eewuH2ejh9GUrR0Sfq2g0byFpCd5JQG7tGRUQT4kMOM=; b=E1VVcZwFog7GNxvPLoAdw9dNw+MNf7VRHNRNOUAn6/HdjCgdA2D8ywrTVQ9C7yRgly Ls1puYHmdjCytxp3Abi0hOf56AljY+A8Su6LNLi2TSS90fGeNZDz98uMDXWze07ACi9X 6As76gXwRUecSOuTZd4XJ2lRGdb2Xtrb52qPlAp7SreE+C1kD4Sk47dKqTpthY3FD7D1 jsMOt9Gh6vhqJUwoYKhqAP6bBW7cknaVHzCwrmMSG/BXjkQejM1v71XXfnq4zyx2wRHG LtcDE9JJnBvKq0I9RRgV+gJib+fOg5eagHs0A8xZ21e4IksZoHgl/sWhESwSOLRSC97l ZZyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version; bh=eewuH2ejh9GUrR0Sfq2g0byFpCd5JQG7tGRUQT4kMOM=; b=ZyZIxSZc+btcmcVYlMmkG0l1kZj4BVmHoC5JJyZKMkDEKPoEFHyrY5fWDmyE1+5hkd rUBcS0aE1k9vsqoSuqEilyQ1P0NHN3QGc8gYkZK/YeAA3d5HjFzE1It5YTn57JxGzhsz ZwBbKEKiq2QM3NG3E0WTjpKi0L0257DM39exKmhg45J/2rNvVBYiUo5wJIWcaNhPGjpj Q3/8i/59ZM7t2+KMYAD+ERUYODYI1YACpjmcax+AzqvOzMatsmhwZGFg0cC0vKq5HdQk /hg8CFyOX36og+GeeRzYbf+HuxxZQu1Oc/pcZ4YdOhxfUmDM8/cjlVHBkPqDwxrOVnkv S2Mw== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ2VL5fIiF9nEa1b+VlEklaSqSYZZu/37uCqCzvsdyYbfrxsdEaw 5Bn+LIWR/Yv0T7WL/76rhdo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vubl7Kf8YYQG+E2a3/wkiE08Wavl8yj6xoxn1rgimjHsSBojeG7aq5LZG1iFMii+nAZWvUdOg== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4433:: with SMTP id w19mr2379579lfl.53.1584629292633; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 07:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eldfell.localdomain ([194.136.85.206]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 8sm1703273lfy.21.2020.03.19.07.48.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 19 Mar 2020 07:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 16:48:02 +0200 From: Pekka Paalanen To: Michel =?UTF-8?B?RMOkbnplcg==?= Subject: Re: Atomic KMS API lacks the ability to set cursor hot-spot coordinates Message-ID: <20200319164802.1ef342dd@eldfell.localdomain> In-Reply-To: References: <9d86bbe4-70cf-273d-4d61-aec06011d441@redhat.com> <5c9f7c0e-e225-dfbf-f5bf-cb1c1cc4ac08@redhat.com> <8db6e079-c88a-6b11-b77b-337059a139ba@redhat.com> <20200319145440.51773af8@eldfell.localdomain> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Direct Rendering Infrastructure - Development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Hans de Goede , Jonas =?UTF-8?B?w4VkYWhs?= , "dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1767781850==" Errors-To: dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "dri-devel" --===============1767781850== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/x.n9EVbBHDGRI.dhJK3buJH"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" --Sig_/x.n9EVbBHDGRI.dhJK3buJH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 14:51:41 +0100 Michel D=C3=A4nzer wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >=20 > On 2020-03-19 1:54 p.m., Pekka Paalanen wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 12:52:14 +0100 Hans de Goede > > wrote: =20 > >> On 3/19/20 12:35 PM, Michel D=C3=A4nzer wrote: =20 > >>> On 2020-03-18 4:22 p.m., Simon Ser wrote: =20 > >>>>> > >>>>> On 3/18/20 3:38 PM, Simon Ser wrote: =20 > >>>>>> =20 > >>>>>>> 1) Letting the VM-viewer window-system draw the cursor > >>>>>>> as it normally would draw it. =20 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Why is this important? Can't the VM viewer hide the > >>>>>> cursor and use a sub-surface to manually draw the cursor > >>>>>> plane configured by the guest? =20 > >>>>> > >>>>> Because then moving the cursor as seen by the user requires > >>>>> a round trip through the VM and that adds latency, esp. > >>>>> when the VM viewer is viewing a VM which is running > >>>>> somewhere else over the network. =20 > >>>> > >>>> The video output has latency anyway. =20 > >>> > >>> Sounds like you've never tried the two different modes > >>> yourself? :) IME it makes a big difference even with a local > >>> VM. Even very little latency can make the cursor feel awkward, > >>> like it's being held back by a rubber band or something. =20 > >> > >> Right not to mention that the latency may be variable, so the > >> cursor moves in a jittery fashion instead of having it move > >> smoothly matching the smooth way a user normally moves the > >> mouse. > >> > >> This totally wrecks hand-eye coordination and is just plain > >> awefull. =20 > > > > I have experienced it, and while it is painful, I prefer that pain > > over the pain of accidentally clicking something that was not > > transmitted to the remote display yet. =20 >=20 > Unless you mean clicking something while the cursor is moving, not > sure how seamless vs not affects this, since the delay of something > appearing on the remote display should be the same in both cases? How do you know if the cursor is still moving or not, if you don't see the real cursor but only the fake cursor? I move the mouse, then it takes 0.1 - 10 seconds for the real cursor to reach where I moved it. Only after that I see what the motion caused. Then I can do the next thing. The mouse motion / cursor response gives me continuous feedback, so that I don't run too far ahead of the remote end. > > Therefore I think the best user experience is to use both types of > > cursor at the same time: the remote desktop or VM viewer paints > > the local cursor as an aid, like a phantom, and the cursor from > > inside the VM is also visible with the latency it naturally has. > > That means I could actually see that the screen has caught up with > > my motions before I click something. =20 >=20 > I'd expect that to result in "duplicate cursor" bug reports =E2=80=94 I'd > certainly consider it a bug with my user hat on. The point is to make the phantom cursor look like a phantom cursor, so it cannot be mistaken as the real cursor. It doesn't even need to use the same cursor image as the real cursor, it could be just a translucent spot. Thanks, pq --Sig_/x.n9EVbBHDGRI.dhJK3buJH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEJQjwWQChkWOYOIONI1/ltBGqqqcFAl5zhiIACgkQI1/ltBGq qqewbA//ckqociQgZ1d65BET/5SmbNaJNAKaA4AeZrWYfcNt2zb8PhudoYHlDqZ9 qEfDNMAEuQMbRMOokO+v4maNBGrdOB7oJvXDIYKnXm6jX/ar3v0EpKNivm1vgrU8 9GOWThKyEmbRAgi7zb/0XUZA+xn2F2vjlsltzNl7cc66x/WOPVIMyoNWlEe8wM1q Oj3oJnZjlBSNPWqE9kDgCi/kAfSS5L9pkFmXMNVcI6uBmR5yaq3kR7Bfpl/HSCh9 GgLpGkPXefUYBD1AtSeclBIesHyN418vkYXc/1ZGLC6JMnTWW4pEMIA5sCCvcf+/ Hw2GWl/jmmVjG+iu1Hs/bnXRcDdsNq1+p+H2HeJCBxhCtBQMlTHBui9CYOlySxCw VrnI/swo2YvHsnMGqC2VJtsjjnQ9cmgw38NUoJ0Rbo9rkvHR0+ku3mwa+UFs04wh Jotxeuiq0qACifuMVap01piRXH10ogd1i6WBFEXKPFfC61a9vpUBhp5gcgX/AV/p o0Ewd4UR/pS+9BYLeCEh5l6KX+m/5VoQdYlNuKH+PeA6lBabtV7nS+jQlPioCW0l cSyZXpLIZMyOxnV+CsXhaHNuh0COeNur5JzhV4sa62UIiV/RcZ2CC++nP/S4UdxO FuLlnFHIQPE7CXXcgBoMekLBbd6zochDmo3Fm/nFDAATX8TvUY0= =EIc6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/x.n9EVbBHDGRI.dhJK3buJH-- --===============1767781850== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ dri-devel mailing list dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel --===============1767781850==--