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Thu, 27 Jan 2022 03:10:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from eldfell ([194.136.85.206]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o7sm1401321lfu.37.2022.01.27.03.10.08 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 27 Jan 2022 03:10:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 13:09:59 +0200 From: Pekka Paalanen To: Javier Martinez Canillas Subject: Re: [PATCH] drm/doc: Add section in the introduction page about learning material Message-ID: <20220127130959.568c6274@eldfell> In-Reply-To: References: <20220127082058.434421-1-javierm@redhat.com> <20220127110528.20604049@eldfell> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/aEfNa3QiiQB=Kl4BoRB=JI="; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 X-BeenThere: dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Direct Rendering Infrastructure - Development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Jonathan Corbet , David Airlie , Daniel Vetter , linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, Laurent Pinchart , Thomas Zimmermann Errors-To: dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "dri-devel" --Sig_/aEfNa3QiiQB=Kl4BoRB=JI= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 11:46:44 +0100 Javier Martinez Canillas wrote: > Hello Pekka, >=20 > Thanks a lot for your feedback. >=20 > On 1/27/22 10:05, Pekka Paalanen wrote: > > On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 09:20:58 +0100 > > Javier Martinez Canillas wrote: > > =20 > >> The Linux DRM subsystem supports complex graphics devices and it could= be > >> quite overwhelming for newcomers to learn about the subsystem's intern= als. > >> > >> There are lots of useful talks, slides and articles available that can= be > >> used to get familiar with the needed concepts and ease the learning cu= rve. > >> > >> Add a section to the intro that contains these DRM introductory materi= als. > >> > >> Suggested-by: Daniel Vetter > >> Signed-off-by: Javier Martinez Canillas > >> --- > >> > >> Documentation/gpu/introduction.rst | 36 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >> 1 file changed, 36 insertions(+) > >> > >> diff --git a/Documentation/gpu/introduction.rst b/Documentation/gpu/in= troduction.rst > >> index 25a56e9c0cfd..35986784f916 100644 > >> --- a/Documentation/gpu/introduction.rst > >> +++ b/Documentation/gpu/introduction.rst > >> @@ -112,3 +112,39 @@ Please conduct yourself in a respectful and civil= ised manner when > >> interacting with community members on mailing lists, IRC, or bug > >> trackers. The community represents the project as a whole, and abusive > >> or bullying behaviour is not tolerated by the project. > >> + > >> +Learning material > >> +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >> + > >> +Since the Linux DRM layer supports complex graphics devices, it can b= e quite > >> +overwhelming for newcomers to get familiar with all the needed concep= ts and > >> +learn the subsystem's internals. =20 > >=20 > > Hi, > >=20 > > this seems to say that DRM is going to be complicated no matter what > > hardware one wants to drive, but is that true? > >=20 > > Is there no way to say that if your display hardware is simple (no > > GPU), then the driver can be simple to write too? > > =20 >=20 > I do wonder how much one could abstract of the uAPI when writing a simple= r driver. >=20 > In other words, writing the driver should be simple but I believe that gr= asping > all the needed details about DRM may not be. > =20 > >> + > >> +To shallow the learning curve, this section contains a list of presen= tations > >> +and documents that can be used to learn about DRM/KMS and graphics in= general. > >> + > >> +The list is sorted in reverse chronological order, to keep the most u= p-to-date > >> +material at the top. But all of them contain useful information, and = it can be > >> +valuable to go through older material to understand the rationale and= context > >> +in which the recent changes to the DRM subsystem were made. > >> + > >> +Talks > >> +----- > >> + > >> +* `An Overview of the Linux and Userspace Graphics Stack `_ - Paul Kocialkowski (2020) > >> +* `Getting pixels on screen on Linux: introduction to Kernel Mode Set= ting `_ - Simon Ser (2020) > >> +* `An introduction to the Linux DRM subsystem `_ - Maxime Ripard (2017) > >> +* `Embrace the Atomic (Display) Age `_ - Daniel Vetter (2016) > >> +* `Anatomy of an Atomic KMS Driver `_ - Laurent Pinchart (2015) > >> +* `Atomic Modesetting for Drivers `_ - Daniel Vetter (2015) > >> +* `Anatomy of an Embedded KMS Driver `_ - Laurent Pinchart (2013 > >> + > >> +Slides and articles > >> +------------------- > >> + > >> +* `Understanding the Linux Graphics Stack `_ - Bootlin (2022) > >> +* `DRM KMS overview `_ - STMicroelectronics (2021) > >> +* `Linux graphic stack `_ - Nathan Gau=C3=ABr (2017) > >> +* `The DRM/KMS subsystem from a newbie=E2=80=99s point of view `_ - Boris Brezillon (2014) > >> +* `A brief introduction to the Linux graphics stack `_ - Iago Toral (2014) > >> +* `The Linux Graphics Stack `_ - Jasper St. Pierre (2012) =20 > >=20 > > That's an impressive list of links! > >=20 > > However, given the discussions that prompted this doc, I think the gist > > is missing. The reader is just flooded with stuff to read and learn > > which can be discouraging. > >=20 > > Your audience are developers who know nothing about DRM. They may have > > been writing fb drivers instead. The display hardware they want to > > drive has no GPU. Where should they get started? Which presentations to > > read/watch first? Which driver to look at for a simple example? > >=20 > > Maybe add one more section targeting that specific audience? > > =20 >=20 > Yes, I did not ignore your suggestions made over IRC but it's just that I > didn't know to write such section. Maybe we can land this section and then > as a follow-up think how a "Getting started" one should look like ? I can't write such a section myself either, and reviewing one I wouldn't be able to say if it covers everything needed but no more. Fine by me! FW I'm W here Acked-by: Pekka Paalanen Thanks, pq --Sig_/aEfNa3QiiQB=Kl4BoRB=JI= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEJQjwWQChkWOYOIONI1/ltBGqqqcFAmHyfYcACgkQI1/ltBGq qqeLQBAAhsB5Rz0x/gq4Utp0S71M2ZTdBQLNdE29RK7Jl/Nb0tc5KxnTV0XXIqNr 5ZPetiSsNMg+rYIz/JS2B8/zxPRAEnNG8jXiT7dDYzIeX/CkiDJWLIj+PJ9/2D7z JXtSwbOkySLaXcFH+Dyecv9zikwamQUjhcFbj7NjeNRpHopG1whZDtkjZC7bESAg OU8Q+JSSE8E4x6qflQq/exrDVXQnzWccpapVTtT1uo0NOUT1FbjF83Z9KS1M1+I4 4lbfuxNgB4Bpq5udvuAg5ypON567ewffGpfMHbeVcLplMc2XVB9aPJl70x6wORaN mIUmcd2Js8UNApSkG+Jd+2oqtQG71G9fQ3qav61Ac6/k474OgzjpmbNArIhlWVbl MndqP4C1n2YMBfhfHtN/hnj0wdQIdK4rr4ugeXztPAtdNhdDTF+rsMrJJc2+9KXk 04qEY2LMKw8c1PpEfLSpOb7pqOSzwlfWP2i5Pu9NVmvR2gpnNrpFo/WlJkm7eOix k6POJIoTh0VE37lBebuGsiDAx4ZU6VGD2PGJL2HMCOmjgZe6BEe4DBO58fXF8Aam p2C2nYziyVHTkQbirOOmK/HBdshBh+khVjAJkNy63IQ9mbLGMH1aFjk6oDEt9XXO kV3XxehxiNSAbucTo/hdP3Pw+rcme8sn4a3YJYQfmpKybfKpj0E= =Lacg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/aEfNa3QiiQB=Kl4BoRB=JI=--