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From: Joshua Crofts <crofts@kernel.org>
To: Samuel Wu <wusamuel@google.com>
Cc: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
	Len Brown <lenb@kernel.org>, Pavel Machek <pavel@kernel.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Danilo Krummrich <dakr@kernel.org>,
	Johan Hovold <johan@kernel.org>,
	linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, driver-core@lists.linux.dev,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Dominik Brodowski <linux@dominikbrodowski.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/3] PM: runtime: add new runtime metrics and summary
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2026 09:42:54 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20261112094254.00003d3d@kernel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAG2KctqMYi+a-NZm7bAHTSc5Ch8=RAaEhY6CAZkvCnGW2VOeEA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 08:56:30 -0800
Samuel Wu <wusamuel@google.com> wrote:

...

> > The main things this is useful for are detecting power "thrashing" and
> > tuning autosuspend delays. Currently, sysfs only shows the total time
> > a device spent in active and suspended mode; from an energy standpoint,
> > a continuous 50 second suspension is different from a device cycling
> > 1000 times for 50ms each (these transitions can be pretty power-hungry).
> > This could help userspace utilities like PowerTOP to more effectively
> > determine what is causing an increased power consumption.
> >
> > From the kernel dev standpoint - this is genuinely useful when testing
> > runtime PM functions in new drivers (for example in the IIO subsystem we
> > deal with a lot of runtime PM stuff).  
> 
> Makes sense, there is value in this info.
> 
> > > And is there a reason the stats need to be surfaced in both sysfs and debugfs?  
> >
> > sysfs definitely, as you should definitely be able to access this info
> > per-device (and this is the way userspace tools would get this info).  
> 
> Is there already a userspace user of these sysfs nodes?

No, there isn't.

> Adding these five sysfs nodes would easily create 10k+ new sysfs nodes
> (a typical Android device can easily have 2k+ devices). Most userspace
> apps would iterate through every possible node, meaning this would be
> an inconsistent snapshot across the 10k+ syscalls, in addition to
> being inefficient.
> 
> These sysfs nodes would have a boot time impact, a non-negligible
> memory impact, and constitute a permanent ABI.

Fair enough, I didn't account for this. 2k+ devices is a lot!

> > The debugfs summary is however pretty elegant IMO and useful. I'm sure a lot
> > of people investigating odd device behaviour would like this (plus there
> > are overviews like this in the kernel already - clk_summary for example).  
> 
> The debugfs addition makes more sense IMO. It filters with
> pm_runtime_enabled() instead of presenting every device, and the
> spinlock at least keeps the view of each device consistent. It's also
> more flexible without the ABI guarantee.

Okay, I've no problem with dropping the sysfs patch. The debugfs summary is
machine-readable for any userspace tools to parse.

-- 
Kind regards,
Joshua Crofts

      reply	other threads:[~2026-11-12  8:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 14+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-11-10 10:43 [PATCH 0/3] PM: runtime: add new runtime metrics and summary Joshua Crofts
2026-11-10 10:43 ` [PATCH 1/3] PM: runtime: add additional suspend/resume metrics Joshua Crofts
2026-11-10 10:43 ` [PATCH 2/3] PM: add sysfs attributes for " Joshua Crofts
2026-11-10 17:29   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2026-11-10 18:50     ` Joshua Crofts
2026-11-10 18:54       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2026-11-10 18:58         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2026-11-10 19:02           ` Joshua Crofts
2026-11-10 21:16             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2026-11-10 10:43 ` [PATCH 3/3] PM: runtime: add debugfs entry for pm_runtime_summary Joshua Crofts
2026-11-11  3:38 ` [PATCH 0/3] PM: runtime: add new runtime metrics and summary Samuel Wu
2026-11-11  9:11   ` Joshua Crofts
2026-11-11 16:56     ` Samuel Wu
2026-11-12  8:42       ` Joshua Crofts [this message]

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