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Marchesi" , Namhyung Kim , bpf Subject: Re: [RFC 0/4] BTF archive with unmodified pahole+toolchain References: <20250807182538.136498-1-acme@kernel.org> <8EEC78FB-CBFA-4DFD-827D-3D5E809ACA0F@gmail.com> <87zfbsici0.fsf@esperi.org.uk> Emacs: ballast for RAM. 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a=z/mQ4Ysz8XfWz/Q5cLBRGdckG28=:19 a=lCpzRmAYbLLaTzLvsPZ7Mbvzbb8=:19 a=wKuvFiaSGQ0qltdbU6+NXLB8nM8=:19 a=Ol13hO9ccFRV9qXi2t6ftBPywas=:19 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=yJojWOMRYYMA:10 a=GoEa3M9JfhUA:10 a=yPCof4ZbAAAA:8 a=fG7_nLX_iXDlMi6saAsA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 1-zRsOVBTQfSDi4LR4gb0ns74lNhlhte X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details-Enc: AW1haW4tMjUwOTEzMDAxMiBTYWx0ZWRfX1ZrK5EfoHZqQ HpBo/EDxMKWCYU92Tku0IBwqeffYmtomATiI92+bFEnnilI3DIo1GtA4ruPY9e0axS6MLDsLYEY HF3rSM373jX7O8vYOCcmJoWyQLxlOANB/MnvBiwM4KVaVY82HMJEvYNh1Zi4qDTl4yV6O4rtT/e ixNkEAOguvy7Pf5aM2iDY6QDvFmPaSPYl2AWZb4k0DzfFhPc522u+A3bbnlcgK14xDLWhcUryvA 8n2aMEHmFNtWCWSlGnUiyMhBeAStSZdlyjwsC3UYQfa624Svra3Sfqo18SfIsN9GzD70dyUjksR MB9Hs6l76V0s1kDMgOeymZtnDaD4xYZJNevRtC8IF6R4QY+8O0bGyWIhNOFdS/ARjE/XyBBy2Ma afJDMH5u On 27 Aug 2025, Alexei Starovoitov stated: > On Thu, Aug 21, 2025 at 2:35=E2=80=AFPM Nick Alcock wrote: >> >> >>I'd like to second Alexei's question. >> >>In the cover letter Arnaldo points out that un-deduplicated BTF >> >>amounts for 325Mb, while total DWARF size is 365Mb. >> >> That very much depends on the kernels you build. In my tests of >> enterprise kernels (including modules) with the GCC+btfarchive toolchain >> (not feeding it to pahole yet), I found total DWARF of 11.2GiB, >> undeduplicated BTF of 550MiB (counting raw .o compiler output alone), >> and a final dedupicated BTF size (including all modules) of about 38MiB >> (which I'm sure I can reduce). > > 11.2G doesn't match Arnaldo's 365Mb. > Frankly I've never seen such huge dwarf objects. I have, but... it was a while back. I shouldn't have worked from memory. Regenerating with a more recent toolchain, summing up all written section sizes (so, undeduplicated .BTF compiler output *and* all the deduplicated module intermediate links) I usually see DWARF sizes about two to three times that of the .BTF (e.g. the BTF selftest is about 800MiB versus about 400MiB of BTF: the final BTF size from both btfarchive and pahole is on the order of 2MiB). Using a random enterprise kernel config (so 2900+ modules, etc), I see 4072236343 bytes of DWARF, 2199803264 bytes of undeduplicated .BTF sections: so, again, about 50% reduction. (toolchain-level dedup on this one takes two minutes and peaks at 5GiB memory usage, producing a 40MiB BTF archive: I know this output can be greatly reduced by a fix I'm planning shortly. :) ) > I'm guessing you're using some ultra verbose dwarf compilation > mode. If so, it's not a realistic comparison, since typical > kernel build is what Arnaldo reported. > That's what I observe as well. > >> >>The size of DWARF sections in the final vmlinux is comparable to yours= : 307Mb. >> >>The total size of the generated binaries is 905Mb. Ditto, now. I dont know what weirdo config I was using before (I suspect it was just an older GCC with a different default DWARF version, and this is simply DWARF 2/3 versus 5). It's still a nontrivial saving. >> GNU ld), despite being single-threaded and doing things like ambiguous >> type detection as well, used 12GiB and took 19 minutes. (Multithreading >> it is in progress, too). allyesconfig is faster. Anything sane is faster >> yet. Enterprise kernels take about four minutes, which is not too >> different from pahole. >> >> I was shocked by this: I thought libctf would be slower than pahole, and >> instead it turned out to be faster, sometimes much faster. I suspect >> much of this frankly ridiculous difference was DWARF conversion, and so >> would be improved by doing it in parallel (as here), but... still. Not >> having to generate and consume all that DWARF is bound to help! It's >> like 95% less work... > > Something doesn't add up here. > Everyone is using pahole and lots of people doing allmodconfig builds > with pahole. Noone reported that pahole consumes 70G and runs for hours. > Something is really not right in your setup. Well... yeah, that would be the make allmodconfig / allyesconfig configuration options. pahole takes more reasonable times with more reasonable configurations, but still ten minutes or more is fairly routine for me. > Pls use typical kernel build configs then we can have apple to apple > comparison and reason about libctf pros/cons. I'm not sure there is such a thing as typical, really. I hope random enterprise configs will do, but they probably have more modules than "normal" and God knows the BTF test configs have fewer :) --=20 NULL && (void)