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a=GoEa3M9JfhUA:10 a=yb5uq-zbsnQoPnMaKx8A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 cc=ntf awl=host:12057 X-Proofpoint-GUID: bjNmA24PM0fgGtPFC0fKI9TaBLV-c4j0 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: bjNmA24PM0fgGtPFC0fKI9TaBLV-c4j0 On 08/07/2025 13:01, Ojaswin Mujoo wrote: >> You could do the statx call on the mounted bdev, and see if atomics are >> supported there. If not, skip the test. >> >> But even for xfs when HW support is available, we can still use software >> fallback when HW support is not possible, i.e. misaligned. So, in that >> regard, we really should only test this on ext4. > Hmm, okay so I'm a bit confused now. What is different in ext4 vs xfs. > Why does the software fallback for xfs matter in this case? For xfs, software fallback-based atomic writes are not even serialized against other software fallback-based atomic writes. They can trample on one another. That is a reason I say that this test should only be for HW-based atomic writes. But even if the bs <= HW limit, on xfs may rarely still use atomic write software fallback if HW-based atomic write is not possible, e.g. misaligned, multiple extents, etc. I will emphasis that this would be rare, but it is still possible. For ext4, since alignment is always guaranteed, and HW-based atomics will only ever be used. > If we limit > io to 16KB hoping that reads don't break, then either ways the fio > verify should work. And if reads break then both ext4 and xfs suffer > irrespective of hardware or software fallback. (We also saw that > hardware atomic writes also suffer with same issue when max_sectors is > low) > >>> Im not sure if returning non-zero for ext4 is also correct as per the >>> documented behavior from 5d894321c49e613. >>> >>> When zero, it means that there is no such performance boundary. >>> >>> Anyways, I think there might be a simpler solution... >>>>> The simplest way seems to be to just limit the $blocksize to >>>>> something like $(_min 16KB awu_max) and hope that 16KB is small enough >>>>> to not be split during reads. We anyways have other tests like >>>>> generic/1230 that can be used to test larger atomic write sizes >>>>> >>>>> Thoughts? >>>> As I said at the start, we never had guarantees of serialization of reads >>>> and atomic writes. >>>> >>>> However I still think that this is a useful test. It's just it is >>>> theoretically possible to give false positives. >>>> >>>> You could get the test to read max_sectors_kb, and check whether it is >>>> greater than the bs. Again, more complexity. >>> I think this might work. So i can set the iosize as 16kb which is >>> already low enought. Incase the max_sectors is < than 16kb then we bail >>> out. (but then maybe there is a very small chance of read split still) >> Sure, that seems fine. >> >>> OR another approach is to do the verify at the very end when all threads >>> are done writing so the reads don't race. The tradeoff is that this >>> will reduce the effictiveness of the test though to some extent. >> Yeah, right. We would want this test to prove that atomic writes are not >> getting split by the block stack, so racing reads can help prove that. > Yeahh, but now i'm leaning towards this approach of keeping verify at > the very end instead of parallel. I don't think that fio supports such a mode. Or does it? > Yes, it is a bit less effective but > then having a data integrity test that can theoretically return false > positives is not good, it'll always keep me guessing about any failure. > Having verify at end will not have false failures for sure. Even though > it comes at a cost of less coverage. > > Maybe we can also get some other prespectives on this. > @Zorro, @Darrick, can you please give your thoughts on this? > > As a sidenote, with this issue of fio's verify read splitting, it seems > like the parallel verify feature in fio itself is flawed for non-atomic > writes as well since the read can always split and race with the writes. fio does warn that multiple read and writers in verify mode is unsafe. > > Not sure what the solution is here, maybe time for non splittable atomic > writes (:p) I just think that fio in verify mode for ext4 is ok, as long as max_sectors_kb is large. But fundamentally we are trying to test a feature of RWF_ATOMIC which is not guaranteed. Thanks, John