From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from secure.elehost.com (secure.elehost.com [185.209.179.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17FCE223DD0 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2025 18:40:15 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=185.209.179.11 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1758393618; cv=none; b=ugATh38uIwO1vmMb873h5d68vNJg+T4n21IkkZCoT5jQWW1muFY1tE8TqY1/jKaJJPplzjRvAG3+Oa2ubMUgqjci/NA1nKtBHolMMtq3IMJQQIxWDZsXhM7kv30fjo8ZRt9wVToCSEw34yd5H0Fc/5ODleeMl5P7EbbOEz5NTcY= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1758393618; c=relaxed/simple; bh=grxzvNBv7Ag2g2lJVSc3AJDY52yJj5dtIkHTVaoZkzs=; h=From:To:Cc:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=kOtWl3Dyj9GF94V99dyqEDeXFm5Ui/9gwFb5TNCSSSeWl5wDXKmZ1yi31iG1AkQgQ4q+yFEEXVa8kFW5yuX1LqKsHMJzGP3mDI4GZB7hn19oncw+BLFeKWebE5nAroIItnmzKWTPL2hb4VZgQfJaDsgl8fOM3FDBUdr85evyVMs= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=nexbridge.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nexbridge.com; arc=none smtp.client-ip=185.209.179.11 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=nexbridge.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nexbridge.com X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at secure.elehost.com Received: from Mazikeen (pool-99-228-67-183.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [99.228.67.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by secure.elehost.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-22ubuntu3) with ESMTPSA id 58KIdXuH1550901 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 20 Sep 2025 18:39:34 GMT Reply-To: From: To: , Cc: <20250904-b4-pks-rust-breaking-change-v1-0-3af1d25e0be9@pks.im>, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , References: <8799E6DB-FC85-4F71-A6C1-363D1AC8ED06@macos-powerpc.org> In-Reply-To: <8799E6DB-FC85-4F71-A6C1-363D1AC8ED06@macos-powerpc.org> Subject: RE: [PATCH RFC 0/3] Introduce Rust and announce that it will become mandatorty Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2025 14:39:28 -0400 Organization: Nexbridge Inc. Message-ID: <000001dc2a5d$ea10ffe0$be32ffa0$@nexbridge.com> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQLgmUmHR/cGrsIL/oCQ2NDpPqhQsLKTiAvg Content-Language: en-ca X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250920-4, 9/20/2025), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean On September 20, 2025 4:30 Am, Sergey Fedorov wrote: >> but I'd like to hear what OSes and Architectures you use personally and >professionally and why adding Rust would be a bad idea. > >I am the maintainer of ports for Darwin on PowerPC systems (few past years in >MacPorts and now in https://github.com/macos-powerpc/powerpc-ports fork) >and contributor to GCC (gfortran). I have added the whole of current R ecosystem >into MacPorts and a decent support for modern Fortran via FPM. > >Those systems are still actively used, and thanks to GCC upstream support of >powerpc-apple-darwin I have been able to keep our ports pretty much on par >(occasionally ahead of) what modern macOS has at the moment. A lot of work has >been done in past two-three years, including fixing/restoring support for ppc for >several major langs/compilers (gfortran, MLton, SBCL, Ruby, OCaml, Idris2 etc.), >build systems etc. > >Git is essential for the version control, but also for the build systems of MacPorts >and CMake. Since my powerpc ports rely on MacPorts infrastructure (there are >40k+ ports), I need a working Git for my workflow. > >To be clear, I do not object to adding Rust optionally (as I would not against adding >optional modules for any language), but making it mandatory, while Rust is still >broken on a few, admittedly edge case, systems, hurts the open-source. > >I agree with John Paul Adrian that once gccrs becomes properly usable, or otherwise >gcc codegen in Rust acquires support for currently unsupported platforms, things >will change. > >P. S. I have contributed to mrustc, so it is not ideological. Though I do think that >ability to bootstrap from source is strictly required for a compiler to be safe, and at >the moment bootstrapping of Rust may not yet work for all supported platforms (at >least it is not well-tested). > >References: >https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/1312 >https://github.com/thepowersgang/mrustc/issues/300 To clarify, gcc is not available on all platforms. The overlap where gcc is supported and Rust is support is likely high, but more, where gcc is not supported then it is highly unlikely that Rust is supported. mrustc is a difficult more that requires gcc even if that is not clearly stated - it does not build with c17, for example. This double requirement is making the probability of being able to continue to support git even less for me on NonStop. My team is working hard to push Rust availability and we realize that gccrs is an easier path, but those two are currently outside of our control because of complexities in the loader on NonStop.