From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Dennis Kaarsemaker Subject: Re: Should git-remote-hg/bzr be part of the core? Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 12:35:05 +0200 Message-ID: <1399890905.11985.51.camel@seahawk> References: <537008f06ceb8_8e47492f89f@nysa.notmuch> <53709788.2050201@alum.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Felipe Contreras , git@vger.kernel.org, git-fc@googlegroups.com, Richard Hansen , Torsten =?ISO-8859-1?Q?B=F6gershausen?= , Antoine Pelisse , Christophe Simonis , Dusty Phillips , Jeff King , John Keeping To: Michael Haggerty X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Mon May 12 12:35:20 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.180.67]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WjnZk-0005GF-HS for gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org; Mon, 12 May 2014 12:35:17 +0200 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1754428AbaELKfK (ORCPT ); Mon, 12 May 2014 06:35:10 -0400 Received: from mail-ee0-f44.google.com ([74.125.83.44]:51868 "EHLO mail-ee0-f44.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751942AbaELKfI (ORCPT ); Mon, 12 May 2014 06:35:08 -0400 Received: by mail-ee0-f44.google.com with SMTP id c41so4555679eek.3 for ; Mon, 12 May 2014 03:35:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:date:in-reply-to :references:content-type:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0/2JpyyOe5j4fZm38fUNrdPbiQcbvEghQafqgDPXkE8=; b=J4xwm/DgkvNup3QLCwMnwnk255HGBEl0UwYCyLPJrzTCFqwvwEBFgH+1UfTrJefnhn QEHUQXxF4HfEiXkDYu8amR3H84EJJw5sswi4uzbobbn2/2sFXQ/dS0MMx7OuXWqReBBE j7w8PatU2lZr95H4wNT4vCthB8MSKdO9lfWR629i0oBeUorqOTtmfc2YfFlJQgLANiIW tF4+iLVo2s0G780YCMztWiYB0csxKcmzHRuA1cJyVvUx/ORF0b7SQFl1ghgZsYuIYcOw 7j/Q7v7QsLD9xAHTN0N9iYq9/ifAXYGN+9aBH6l+3IXQsdF+Sy02aDVPddqmZiYzRuYR fhcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlAMOV1Tv5gIh7iR4cXTT35CZPNzAU7HXRrb0vYgcOeE7YgdKY7DrYQZ9mCqhxZ+5Rd5yKY X-Received: by 10.14.183.5 with SMTP id p5mr31715782eem.52.1399890907458; Mon, 12 May 2014 03:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.155.73.156] (proxy-gw-l.booking.com. [5.57.20.8]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id z44sm31920046eep.39.2014.05.12.03.35.05 for (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 12 May 2014 03:35:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53709788.2050201@alum.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Evolution 3.8.4-0ubuntu1 Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: Michael, Thank you for writing this, I have to see I agree completely. As a mostly lurker on this list, I tend to skip any thread Felipe is participating in, as it tends to quickly spiral out of control. This is also the main reason for me not to actively participate a bit more, I prefer reasonable discussions over fighting. On ma, 2014-05-12 at 11:42 +0200, Michael Haggerty wrote: > On 05/12/2014 01:34 AM, Felipe Contreras wrote: > > Recently Junio said he was willing to hear the opinion of other people > > regarding the move from contrib to the core[1]. This move is already > > under way, but suddenly Junio changed his mind. > > I agree with Junio. There are good technical arguments for and against > moving git-remote-hg out of contrib. Those arguments were discussed at > length and I think their weight is on the side of not moving it. But > there are two other (in my opinion, stronger) reasons for keeping > git-remote-hg out of the core: > > 1. That subproject has not been maintained to the standards of the Git > project; specifically, Git project standards include good commit > messages and a willingness to engage with the community on a friendly > and constructive way and to welcome feedback. Because of your > confrontational and nit-picking style, Felipe, many people who have > tried to help you improve your work are rebuffed and end up giving up > out of frustration or exhaustion. Because of this, your commits do not > benefit from the usual amount of help from the community and therefore > their quality is not as high as required for commits to core Git. > > 2. Moving git-remote-hg into the core would require even *more* of your > presence on the Git mailing list. But your very presence is detrimental > to the rest of the community. You insult and frustrate people who are > trying to help you. You attribute malign motivations to people who are > trying to be scrupulously fair. You string out enormous threads of > nit-picking, legalistic argumentativeness that have little to do with > the real issues at hand. > > The last big "Felipe eruption" in the summer of 2013 caused an enormous > amount of strife, wasted an inordinate amount of time of other community > members, and caused at least one valued contributor to temporarily > rage-quit the community. That episode only ended when Junio asked you > to leave the community [1], which, thankfully, you did for a while. > > After you left, the atmosphere of the mailing list soon returned to its > usual friendly, collegial, and efficient norm. > > Recently you returned to the mailing list. In my opinion everybody on > the list, including especially Junio, interacted with you in a very > polite and businesslike manner. I believe you were given an honest > chance at a fresh start in the community. I wish you had taken it. The > Git project could really benefit from the help of a skilled and > energetic developer like you! > > But it didn't take long before you started the same theatrics again. > And now again, dealing with your caustic attitude is wasting an order of > magnitude more time of the other core developers than your contributions > could possibly bring in benefits. > > For me, the conclusion is unfortunate but clear: Felipe Contreras is (by > far) a net liability to the Git project. Specifically: > > * The Git project will progress faster without you because the other > contributors will have to waste less time dealing with your antics. > > * The Git community will grow faster without you, because your presence > will not cause existing contributors to withdraw and dissuade new > contributors from joining. > > * The community will be a lot more pleasant without you. > > Therefore, I am happy that you have apparently decided to split > git-remote-hg into a separate project. I wish you success with the > project and I see no reason that it shouldn't continue to be successful. > But I am glad that I will not have to interact with you anymore. > > > [...] Does it make sense to you that > > you get thrown in jail for a crime you haven't committed merely because > > someone thinks it's likely you will? > > Being the leader of your own valuable open-source project is nothing > like jail. It is an opportunity for you to shine in an environment that > is more suited to your personality. > > > Given the huge amount of work I've put in these remote helpers, and the > > fact that Junio said since day 1 he wanted these in the core[5] (and I > > was operating under that assumption), I think the demotion back to the > > contrib area (and therefore out-of-tree) should be made carefully, and > > not from one day to he next as it happened. > > None of the work was wasted. git-remote-hg can live on. > > This email is written in sorrow, not in anger. Felipe, you seem to have > so much potential. If you would put as much effort in conducting social > interactions as you do in coding, the whole balance would change > entirely, and any software project would be happy to have you. With all > my heart I truly wish you the best in your future endeavors. > > Michael > > [1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/227750 > -- Dennis Kaarsemaker http://www.kaarsemaker.net