From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS31976 209.132.180.0/23 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.2 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 682561F404 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2018 21:01:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751897AbeCYVBk (ORCPT ); Sun, 25 Mar 2018 17:01:40 -0400 Received: from injection.crustytoothpaste.net ([192.241.140.119]:42610 "EHLO injection.crustytoothpaste.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751208AbeCYVBj (ORCPT ); Sun, 25 Mar 2018 17:01:39 -0400 Received: from genre.crustytoothpaste.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:b978:101:e6b3:18ff:fe98:41a3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by injection.crustytoothpaste.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CEEE160988; Sun, 25 Mar 2018 21:01:37 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=crustytoothpaste.net; s=default; t=1522011698; bh=867JyLfh7Drqp2hA1vL/WGfrbLxzU9vXurF/C46GNNA=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Content-Type: Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To:From:Reply-To:Subject:Date:To:CC: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:Content-Disposition; b=oVHyYljjoc97UGXl+oL1o+LFsjGLWk3BZ4kdlue5etbGJsunyx/qOYHKud7nkLtIR XhRB+MOOETcxZ5gjmFK8cd2Aq+MdWef/l1upp1I2hnkGeX0x/yFVJfrAPTNApaaWKq i/paxb9/IprNTinYejy750My1/ooJiZERy1GjXS5eTCdVrEF9cgFrYFn0ECXpbuw82 K0SxaPOnbS6bKclDSzyAH6p+fudDCi0OeS8SYkOuOO/EKmbE8IHJlASF8ZWFlE3OqV 7SkbsbdO8Gw7VOF8+WL7Qh99RlYR5VZ4OA6OC1gLX7NnkDk8zw2yvDlmUV/QxN8Vx/ kpUvlQZ42Q0oIrxUf5mFja866kJNTE8GBQkkk/eLJNEfecKX4v+207PreVB/vpqErL pyGGyJYqUyzFXD7NIG27F9jrqYuj/YW0OXcRyVG6JMp7hESRGIIVDJ1TlFHJIGOiiq vEdagDPbssEusThdvmNGiKVvslzrh4fSR5wGbKuWD0mJ7g1lAqR Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2018 21:01:32 +0000 From: "brian m. carlson" To: =?utf-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsA==?= Bjarmason Cc: git@vger.kernel.org, Junio C Hamano , Linux Kernel Mailing List Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] send-email: supply a --send-delay=1 by default Message-ID: <20180325210132.GE74743@genre.crustytoothpaste.net> Mail-Followup-To: "brian m. carlson" , =?utf-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsA==?= Bjarmason , git@vger.kernel.org, Junio C Hamano , Linux Kernel Mailing List References: <20180325182803.30036-1-avarab@gmail.com> <20180325182803.30036-3-avarab@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZInfyf7laFu/Kiw7" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20180325182803.30036-3-avarab@gmail.com> X-Machine: Running on genre using GNU/Linux on x86_64 (Linux kernel 4.16.0-rc5-amd64) User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 127.0.1.1 Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org --ZInfyf7laFu/Kiw7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 06:28:03PM +0000, =C3=86var Arnfj=C3=B6r=C3=B0 Bjar= mason wrote: > The earlier change to add this option described the problem this > option is trying to solve. >=20 > This turns it on by default with a value of 1 second, which'll > hopefully solve it, and if not user reports as well as the > X-Mailer-Send-Delay header should help debug it. >=20 > I think the trade-off of slowing down E-Mail sending to turn this on > makes sense because: >=20 > * GMail is a really common client, git.git's own unique authors by > %aE are ~30% @gmail.com, ~20% for linux.git. That's just patch > submitters, my guess is this it's much more common among those who > mostly read the list, and those users who aren't using mu4e / mutt > etc. anyway. >=20 > * There's really no point in having this feature at all if it's not > made the default, since the entire point is to be able to read a > list like the git ML or the LKML and have patches from others show > up in order. >=20 > * I don't think anyone's really sensitive to the sending part of > send-email taking longer. You just choose "all" and then switch to > another terminal while it does its thing if you have a huge series, > and for 1-3 patches I doubt anyone would notice this anyway. I'm not sure that this is going to have the effect you want it to have. Let me give an example to demonstrate why. If I send a series to the list, in order for this to work, you need my SMTP server (Postfix) to essentially send mails slowly enough to vger.kernel.org (ZMailer) that it doesn't batch them when it sends them to GMail. The problem is that with my mail server, due to filtering and such, already takes at least a second to accept, process, and relay submitted messages. vger still batched them and delivered them back to me out of order. This will be even worse with large series. You are also assuming that my mail server will not have batched them and delivered them out of order, which it might well do, since Postfix uses a connection cache to machines that don't do STARTTLS (which, much to my annoyance, vger doesn't offer). In short, I don't think this is going to be especially helpful because it won't change the status quo for a lot of senders. You'd have to insert some significant delay in order to get the effect you desire, and even then things could still be delivered out of order. --=20 brian m. carlson / brian with sandals: Houston, Texas, US https://www.crustytoothpaste.net/~bmc | My opinion only OpenPGP: https://keybase.io/bk2204 --ZInfyf7laFu/Kiw7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEX8OngXdrJt+H9ww3v1NdgR9S9osFAlq4DiwACgkQv1NdgR9S 9otDQw/9H8FPstoFfE9ZLLry8V6c9Wxx61F1h/GrR1fWcMsa111DVlEvYjb4Fq2q XjG7MCTPbQAJ9fPEdNHyqMdczGKdrWU4MYEl39pDUBCCiAL3X9WsHZps/glGxuQx yVJ7D5fHKHY8Xh3Ovps9cdpes3it9I5AzA0wMj7oY1s18A8VTKH5vVb/hwEEP/lw NiqrGAucbr8I1t05Y3IIqpFAY7HAuwk4Ik2nIS9cfGl9WpjkmBF9lJaMNp49KB0A YvqOAe6fsJRrqr1BZ/06RaTQPxmPOi/hdVep8qIBmna3GBmfCv/wxaUTweYeUkib XTAI8Q/muLzW4MlSFifu4L7XKDW+zlPyKGCCzcFZ9ENup4xr87gWuO87FEvKgq8/ +p9855UDEOQeCL2ZrvcdXCtiuBuXGbzuhYEGXty5TejIhE7i+osY+19gxomAhEzc NZaCtgb/dxhIywniqKUCCL+woFVY7lQjsMZldFKa1MIkhmv3iG5VbNWYDTZj1M46 NXiGRYogRQlq8TTMf/B8OLSnHRWicNJs8aIqGFHfrCMg6amEipCOEBK+q7FOgu2c BzolRL5y53O2MR2qHSSg0mGPzd/ENqNQePFy9wT//GuHapEUFMODDfRcyh36VyUx 9n5z9u7bQ+ewlq5pNk4bUA7ffDbYcyK1ZvANmeiOu0cZeOdrm6k= =NQDg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZInfyf7laFu/Kiw7--