[Question] Translation Dictionary

[Question] Translation Dictionary

[rsbecker]

To the git translators.

I was wondering whether there is an official translation dictionary for
git-related terms. At times, I am asked to provide presentations with an
initial translation to companies in various parts of the world. It would be
nice to be able to follow the official set of terms used in git
translations. Does such a thing exist?

Thanks,
Randall

--
Brief whoami: NonStop&UNIX developer since approximately
UNIX(421664400)
NonStop(211288444200000000)
-- In real life, I talk too much.

Re: [Question] Translation Dictionary

[Jean-Noël Avila]

Hi Randall,

I guess not all git translators are subscribed to the mailing list, as 
they mostly interact with Jiang. I put them in cc.

For French, I try to maintain a glossary of terms in the header of the 
`fr.po` file, available here:
https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/po/fr.po

Best regards,

Jean-Noël


Le 29/01/2022 à 20:35, rsbecker@nexbridge.com a écrit :
> To the git translators.
>
> I was wondering whether there is an official translation dictionary for
> git-related terms. At times, I am asked to provide presentations with an
> initial translation to companies in various parts of the world. It would be
> nice to be able to follow the official set of terms used in git
> translations. Does such a thing exist?
>
> Thanks,
> Randall
>
> --
> Brief whoami: NonStop&UNIX developer since approximately
> UNIX(421664400)
> NonStop(211288444200000000)
> -- In real life, I talk too much.
>
>
>

Re: [Question] Translation Dictionary

[Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason]

On Thu, Feb 03 2022, Jean-Noël Avila wrote:

> Hi Randall,
>
> I guess not all git translators are subscribed to the mailing list, as
> they mostly interact with Jiang. I put them in cc.
>
> For French, I try to maintain a glossary of terms in the header of the
> `fr.po` file, available here:
> https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/po/fr.po

I started trying to come up with something similar for the Icelandic
translation I plan on getting to any day now (for ~11 years and
counting).

I think it would be a really good addition to git to move this list into
a built-in or an option for "git help", something like:

    git i18n-terms

Or:

    git help --common-terms

It would help users that use a non-English a lot, since they could use
it as a reliable cheatsheet, and it would clearly help translators,
since it could be one of the first things they'd translate, to anchor
themselves when it comes to translating blob/tree/commit/tag etc.

If you're interested I can help you come up with that. Basically it
would be some "static" array with that table as C code with strings
marked with N_(). We could then add optional explanations as in
gitglossary(7) (and even eventually generate that documentation from
that code).

> Le 29/01/2022 à 20:35, rsbecker@nexbridge.com a écrit :
>> To the git translators.
>>
>> I was wondering whether there is an official translation dictionary for
>> git-related terms. At times, I am asked to provide presentations with an
>> initial translation to companies in various parts of the world. It would be
>> nice to be able to follow the official set of terms used in git
>> translations. Does such a thing exist?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Randall
>>
>> --
>> Brief whoami: NonStop&UNIX developer since approximately
>> UNIX(421664400)
>> NonStop(211288444200000000)
>> -- In real life, I talk too much.
>>
>>
>>

RE: [Question] Translation Dictionary

[rsbecker]

On February 3, 2022 4:55 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 03 2022, Jean-Noël Avila wrote:
> > I guess not all git translators are subscribed to the mailing list, as
> > they mostly interact with Jiang. I put them in cc.
> >
> > For French, I try to maintain a glossary of terms in the header of the
> > `fr.po` file, available here:
> > https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/po/fr.po
> 
> I started trying to come up with something similar for the Icelandic translation I
> plan on getting to any day now (for ~11 years and counting).
> 
> I think it would be a really good addition to git to move this list into a built-in or an
> option for "git help", something like:
> 
>     git i18n-terms
> 
> Or:
> 
>     git help --common-terms
> 
> It would help users that use a non-English a lot, since they could use it as a
> reliable cheatsheet, and it would clearly help translators, since it could be one of
> the first things they'd translate, to anchor themselves when it comes to
> translating blob/tree/commit/tag etc.
> 
> If you're interested I can help you come up with that. Basically it would be some
> "static" array with that table as C code with strings marked with N_(). We could
> then add optional explanations as in
> gitglossary(7) (and even eventually generate that documentation from that
> code).

Yes, I would like to investigate doing this. I have some experience with different translation approaches, so it does make sense to me. The question is where to start. From a framework standpoint, it would be nice to have the terms externalized and searchable (as in git glossary [term]... or perhaps more completely git glossary --grep=term --language=fr --iso=fr_CA [term]...). I can also see some provisioning for phrases, "upstream remote" comes to mind as one that gave me a headache earlier in the week, and potentially usage - in Jean-Noël list, prefacing "to" to a term implies it is a verb rather than a noun but we might want to consider a more normalized approach to managing usage, bearing in mind that this is a very large "rabbit hole". I would even suggest that gitglossary(7) might ultimately be deprecated particularly on systems without 'man(1)'.

Help would definitely be appreciated in getting this started. I have a topic branch at github where I am planning on keeping this stuff visible.

> 
> > Le 29/01/2022 à 20:35, rsbecker@nexbridge.com a écrit :
> >> To the git translators.
> >>
> >> I was wondering whether there is an official translation dictionary
> >> for git-related terms. At times, I am asked to provide presentations
> >> with an initial translation to companies in various parts of the
> >> world. It would be nice to be able to follow the official set of
> >> terms used in git translations. Does such a thing exist?

Regards,
Randall

Re: [Question] Translation Dictionary

[Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason]

On Thu, Feb 03 2022, rsbecker@nexbridge.com wrote:

> On February 3, 2022 4:55 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 03 2022, Jean-Noël Avila wrote:
>> > I guess not all git translators are subscribed to the mailing list, as
>> > they mostly interact with Jiang. I put them in cc.
>> >
>> > For French, I try to maintain a glossary of terms in the header of the
>> > `fr.po` file, available here:
>> > https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/po/fr.po
>> 
>> I started trying to come up with something similar for the Icelandic translation I
>> plan on getting to any day now (for ~11 years and counting).
>> 
>> I think it would be a really good addition to git to move this list into a built-in or an
>> option for "git help", something like:
>> 
>>     git i18n-terms
>> 
>> Or:
>> 
>>     git help --common-terms
>> 
>> It would help users that use a non-English a lot, since they could use it as a
>> reliable cheatsheet, and it would clearly help translators, since it could be one of
>> the first things they'd translate, to anchor themselves when it comes to
>> translating blob/tree/commit/tag etc.
>> 
>> If you're interested I can help you come up with that. Basically it would be some
>> "static" array with that table as C code with strings marked with N_(). We could
>> then add optional explanations as in
>> gitglossary(7) (and even eventually generate that documentation from that
>> code).
>
> Yes, I would like to investigate doing this. I have some experience
> with different translation approaches, so it does make sense to
> me. The question is where to start. From a framework standpoint, it
> would be nice to have the terms externalized and searchable (as in git
> glossary [term]... or perhaps more completely git glossary --grep=term
> --language=fr --iso=fr_CA [term]...). I can also see some provisioning
> for phrases, "upstream remote" comes to mind as one that gave me a
> headache earlier in the week, and potentially usage - in Jean-Noël
> list, prefacing "to" to a term implies it is a verb rather than a noun
> but we might want to consider a more normalized approach to managing
> usage, bearing in mind that this is a very large "rabbit hole". I
> would even suggest that gitglossary(7) might ultimately be deprecated
> particularly on systems without 'man(1)'.
>
> Help would definitely be appreciated in getting this started. I have a topic branch at github where I am planning on keeping this stuff visible.

If you do:

    make command-list.h

We end up with something similar to what I have in mind. That one
happens to be generated, but we could just stick this in help.c for
now. I.e.:

	struct i18n_term {
	        const char *term;;
	};

	static struct i18n_term i18n_terms[] = {
		{ N_("3-way merge") },
		{ N_("#NN") },
		{ N_("a commit") },
		[...],
		NULL,
	};

I.e. just a copy of the list at
https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/po/fr.po. The help.c library has
some examples that should be easy to follow e.g. how "git help --guides"
calls list_guides_help(), which iterates a similar variable.

For --language=* etc. you can do that with just LANGUAGE=<...> (i.e. via
standard libintl) features. I think for this we could just stick with
that.

And instead of --grep you can pipe to grep(1) :)

This can always be made fancier later, and we can expand "struct
i18n_term" with some category labels or whatever, e.g. for core data
types (blob, tree, tag, commit) v.s. core concepts (merge, rebase,
commit, pull, push) etc.

Re: [Question] Translation Dictionary

[Junio C Hamano]

<rsbecker@nexbridge.com> writes:

> I would even suggest that gitglossary(7) might ultimately be
> deprecated particularly on systems without 'man(1)'.

Yes, I think the entries in the "git help -w glossay" are good
things to have in the dictionary.  I thought there are folks who are
already translating our manual pages (perhaps with po4a if I recall
correctly but I may be misremembering)?

Thanks.

Re: [Question] Translation Dictionary

[Jean-Noël AVILA]

On Thursday, 3 February 2022 19:15:24 CET Junio C Hamano wrote:
> <rsbecker@nexbridge.com> writes:
> 
> > I would even suggest that gitglossary(7) might ultimately be
> > deprecated particularly on systems without 'man(1)'.
> 

I'd rather gitglossary and `git glossary` did not compete and they could share 
their translations.


> Yes, I think the entries in the "git help -w glossay" are good
> things to have in the dictionary.  I thought there are folks who are
> already translating our manual pages (perhaps with po4a if I recall
> correctly but I may be misremembering)?
> 
> Thanks.
> 

Yes, there are. You can find the project at 
https://github.com/jnavila/git-manpages-l10n

The Portuguese is fully translated, gitglossary included.

This makes me think that translating gitglossary should come first, in order to 
set the standard for the other manpages.

Re: [Question] Translation Dictionary

[Junio C Hamano]

Jean-Noël AVILA <avila.jn@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thursday, 3 February 2022 19:15:24 CET Junio C Hamano wrote:
>> <rsbecker@nexbridge.com> writes:
>> 
>> > I would even suggest that gitglossary(7) might ultimately be
>> > deprecated particularly on systems without 'man(1)'.
>> 
>
> I'd rather gitglossary and `git glossary` did not compete and they could share 
> their translations.
>
>
>> Yes, I think the entries in the "git help -w glossay" are good
>> things to have in the dictionary.  I thought there are folks who are
>> already translating our manual pages (perhaps with po4a if I recall
>> correctly but I may be misremembering)?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>
> Yes, there are. You can find the project at 
> https://github.com/jnavila/git-manpages-l10n
>
> The Portuguese is fully translated, gitglossary included.
>
> This makes me think that translating gitglossary should come first, in order to 
> set the standard for the other manpages.

Yup, and if we can come up with a way to mechanically share the list
of items (i.e. what to include and not include in the glossary) and
their translations between "git glossary" and "git help glossary",
that would be great.

Thanks.

RE: [Question] Translation Dictionary

[rsbecker]

On February 3, 2022 4:34 PM, Junio C Hamano wrote:
> Jean-Noël AVILA <avila.jn@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > On Thursday, 3 February 2022 19:15:24 CET Junio C Hamano wrote:
> >> <rsbecker@nexbridge.com> writes:
> >>
> >> > I would even suggest that gitglossary(7) might ultimately be
> >> > deprecated particularly on systems without 'man(1)'.
> >>
> >
> > I'd rather gitglossary and `git glossary` did not compete and they
> > could share their translations.
> >
> >
> >> Yes, I think the entries in the "git help -w glossay" are good things
> >> to have in the dictionary.  I thought there are folks who are already
> >> translating our manual pages (perhaps with po4a if I recall correctly
> >> but I may be misremembering)?
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >
> > Yes, there are. You can find the project at
> > https://github.com/jnavila/git-manpages-l10n
> >
> > The Portuguese is fully translated, gitglossary included.
> >
> > This makes me think that translating gitglossary should come first, in
> > order to set the standard for the other manpages.
> 
> Yup, and if we can come up with a way to mechanically share the list of items (i.e.
> what to include and not include in the glossary) and their translations between
> "git glossary" and "git help glossary", that would be great.

I thin that should be part of my goal, yes.
-Randall

RE: [Question] Translation Dictionary

[rsbecker]

Le 3 février 2022 à 04:37, Jean-Noël Avila a écrit:
> I guess not all git translators are subscribed to the mailing list, as they mostly
> interact with Jiang. I put them in cc.
> 
> For French, I try to maintain a glossary of terms in the header of the `fr.po` file,
> available here:
> https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/po/fr.po
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jean-Noël
> 
> 
> Le 29/01/2022 à 20:35, rsbecker@nexbridge.com a écrit :
> > To the git translators.
> >
> > I was wondering whether there is an official translation dictionary
> > for git-related terms. At times, I am asked to provide presentations
> > with an initial translation to companies in various parts of the
> > world. It would be nice to be able to follow the official set of terms
> > used in git translations. Does such a thing exist?

This is exactly what I was hoping. I have a suspicion that the fr_CA region may have slight variances from this this - based on the Grande Dictionnaire I have from a few years back, but that changes often. I was on another project where we tried to keep in sync with Quebec's terms and had to do an annual review to pick up changes. In any event, this helps tremendously at least for LANG=fr.

Kind Regards,
Randall