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From: Stephen Clark <sclark46@earthlink.net>
To: david@lang.hm
Cc: David Newall <davidn@davidnewall.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@sisk.pl>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>,
	Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>, Evgeniy Polyakov <johnpol@2ka.mipt.ru>,
	Tilman Schmidt <tilman@imap.cc>,
	Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu, Mark Lord <lkml@rtr.ca>,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	jesper.juhl@gmail.com, yoshfuji@linux-ipv6.org, jeff@garzik.org,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	git@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Reporting bugs and bisection
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:41:38 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4805F402.1020603@earthlink.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0804152042320.15483@asgard>

david@lang.hm wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, David Newall wrote:
> 
>> Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>> Well, even if someone introduces bugs relatively frequently, but then 
>>> also
>>> works with the reporters and fixes the bugs timely, it's about okay IMO.
>>>
>> This really is not okay.  Even if bugs are fixed a version or two later,
>> the impact those bugs have on users makes the system look bad and drives
>> them away.  We do not, I believe, want Linux to top the list for "most
>> bugs".  It's unprofessional, unreliable and quite undesirable.
> 
> timely frequently means the code was merged in -rc1/2 and was fixed 
> before the final release of the same version.
> 
> given the huge variety of hardware and workloads, it's just too easy for 
> there to be cases where any trade-off you make (code size, performance, 
> memory usage, common case definitions) can turn around and bite you. In 
> addition frequently hardware doesn't work quite the way the design specs 
> say that it should (completely ignoring the fact that many drivers are 
> reverse engineered). what's most important is that when a case shows up 
> it gets addressed promptly
> 
> I'd rather have a developer/maintainer who introduces and fixed 100 bug, 
> but fixes them promptly, as opposed to one who only introduces one bug, 
> but refuses to consider fixing the code 'because they don't make 
> mistakes like that' (u\bsadly a common attitude from people who produce 
> very good code much of the time)
> 
> best of all is a developer/maintainer who writes very good code and is 
> willing to accept the fact that they make mistakes and fixes the code 
> promptly, but those people are extremely rare, and usually they emerge 
> from the pool of people who make more mistakes and fix them promptly, 
> which is an added reason I'm more tolerant of that group.
> 
> David Lang
> 
Having been a Linux user since the late 90's the problem I see is that
developers decide to re-design stuff that is already working and then things
that used to work don't work anymore.

Libata is a good example. I had an older laptop that eventually got working
again - but the old ide stuff wasn't studied enough to find out what had to be
brought forward and supported in libata.

Regards,
Steve
-- 

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety."  (Ben Franklin)

"The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty
decreases."  (Thomas Jefferson)

  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-04-16 12:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 66+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <47FEADCB.7070104@rtr.ca>
     [not found] ` <20080413121831.d89dd424.akpm@linux-foundation.org>
     [not found]   ` <20080413202118.GA29658@2ka.mipt.ru>
     [not found]     ` <200804132233.50491.rjw@sisk.pl>
     [not found]       ` <20080413205406.GA9190@2ka.mipt.ru>
     [not found]         ` <48028830.6020703@earthlink.net>
2008-04-13 23:51           ` Reporting bugs and bisection david
2008-04-14  0:36             ` Jakub Narebski
2008-04-14  4:39             ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-14  5:39               ` Al Viro
2008-04-14  6:24                 ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-14  6:39                   ` David Miller
2008-04-14  6:43                     ` David Miller
2008-04-14  7:23                   ` Al Viro
2008-04-14  7:43                     ` Al Viro
2008-04-14  8:04                     ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-14  8:30                       ` David Miller
2008-04-14  9:06                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-04-14  9:46                         ` Andi Kleen
2008-04-15  5:25                           ` Bill Fink
2008-04-14 10:15                         ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-14 10:41                           ` David Miller
2008-04-14 17:35                             ` Roman Shaposhnik
2008-04-14 12:08                       ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-14 14:43                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-04-14 17:51                         ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-14 18:24                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-04-14 19:30                           ` Ilpo Järvinen
2008-04-14 15:54                     ` James Morris
2008-04-14 22:01                       ` David Miller
2008-04-14 23:05                         ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-15  4:55                           ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-15 13:18                             ` Work WAS(Re: " jamal
2008-04-15  9:33                       ` David Newall
2008-04-15  9:54                         ` Michael Kerrisk
2008-04-15 14:04                           ` David Newall
2008-04-15 20:51                             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-16  2:34                               ` David Newall
2008-04-16  3:53                                 ` david
2008-04-16  9:06                                   ` David Newall
2008-04-16 11:02                                     ` Andi Kleen
2008-04-16 12:41                                   ` Stephen Clark [this message]
2008-04-16  4:29                                 ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-16 12:13                                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-16 12:15                         ` Sverre Rabbelier
2008-04-16 13:26                           ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-16 19:02                             ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-16 19:43                               ` Sverre Rabbelier
2008-04-16 19:55                               ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-17 13:50                                 ` J. Bruce Fields
2008-04-17 15:26                                   ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-16 19:58                               ` Alexey Dobriyan
2008-04-16 20:01                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-04-16 19:39                             ` Sverre Rabbelier
2008-04-16 20:16                               ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-16 20:53                                 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-16 21:05                                   ` Sverre Rabbelier
2008-04-16 21:25                                     ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-16 20:04                             ` Willy Tarreau
2008-04-16 20:55                               ` Jakub Narebski
2008-04-16 21:17                           ` Jesper Juhl
2008-04-17 17:04                             ` David Newall
2008-04-17 19:09                               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-04-17 19:35                                 ` Ray Lee
2008-04-17 19:57                                   ` Sverre Rabbelier
2008-04-17 20:16                                   ` Al Viro
2008-04-17 20:38                                     ` Ray Lee
2008-04-17 20:53                                       ` Al Viro
2008-04-17 21:01                                         ` Ray Lee
2008-04-14 19:13                   ` Rene Herman
2008-04-14 20:38                     ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-14 22:18                       ` Rene Herman

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