From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Michael Haggerty Subject: Re: [PATCH] Documentation/CommunityGuidelines Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 16:40:58 +0200 Message-ID: <51B736FA.5010407@alum.mit.edu> References: <51B6AA7F.1060505@alum.mit.edu> <87li6g969j.fsf@linux-k42r.v.cablecom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Thomas Rast , Git List , Junio C Hamano , Jonathan Nieder , A Large Angry SCM To: Ramkumar Ramachandra X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Tue Jun 11 16:41:17 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.180.67]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UmPl2-0007yQ-FK for gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 16:41:12 +0200 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752573Ab3FKOlH (ORCPT ); Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:41:07 -0400 Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu ([18.7.68.17]:50780 "EHLO alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752421Ab3FKOlG (ORCPT ); Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:41:06 -0400 X-AuditID: 12074411-b7f296d000001209-f6-51b73700c84e Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) by alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id AE.F6.04617.00737B15; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.69.140] (p57A251F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [87.162.81.240]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as mhagger@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id r5BEewJv027164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:40:59 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130510 Thunderbird/17.0.6 In-Reply-To: X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrKKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqMtgvj3QYMFxY4tVMx+zW3Rd6Way aOi9wmwx7ecuVou3N5cwWty9vIrdgc1j56y77B63X89n9rh4Sdnj8ya5AJYobpukxJKy4Mz0 PH27BO6MGW8iCzZLVPTsvsDWwHhCuIuRk0NCwESip2s1O4QtJnHh3nq2LkYuDiGBy4wS+2/e ZYFwzjNJTPu4kxWkildAW2J1wxQwm0VAVWJq/w6wbjYBXYlFPc1MILaoQJjE+2VToeoFJU7O fAI0iINDBKjm2SpvkJnMAhcYJU5O2sQIUiMsYCZx7MVMqGVLmSSuH2tgA0lwCgRKtJ+cxQ7S zCygLrF+nhBImFlAXmL72znMExgFZiFZMQuhahaSqgWMzKsY5RJzSnN1cxMzc4pTk3WLkxPz 8lKLdE31cjNL9FJTSjcxQgJccAfjjJNyhxgFOBiVeHgTGLcFCrEmlhVX5h5ilORgUhLl1TDe HijEl5SfUpmRWJwRX1Sak1p8iFGCg1lJhLdRDijHm5JYWZValA+TkuZgURLn5Vui7ickkJ5Y kpqdmlqQWgSTleHgUJLgdTUDahQsSk1PrUjLzClBSDNxcIIM55ISKU7NS0ktSiwtyYgHxWl8 MTBSQVI8QHttQdp5iwsSc4GiEK2nGI05Np+f/I6RY8YPICnEkpeflyolzqsJUioAUppRmge3 CJbaXjGKA/0tzOsIUsUDTItw814BrWICWjVFfQvIqpJEhJRUA2NCgY1tO3fWheusP32ZZ3Ad YgwN7LqnJrHroUv7hCN6aR5JvZNb+H1b05Kkgh/IrdSX3vn46GxGycPlChLGwQb7 Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: On 06/11/2013 03:40 PM, Ramkumar Ramachandra wrote: > Is it because you have realized deep down that you have absolutely no > rational argument...Why are you incapable of > using your words to counter my arguments rationally?Are you so blind > that you cannot see the consequences of acting without reason? Ram, you are insulting Thomas the human being rather than addressing his points. Please stop. > Tomorrow the majority opinion will dictate that I am a fire hazard and > must be removed. Soon, anybody who disagrees with the majority > opinion will be removed, and the community will be reduced to a > handful of circlejerking yes-men. The git project will die a sad > death. And the blood will be on your hands. It is not disagreement that is causing problems; it is the inflammatory tone of the discussion. Civil and constructive disagreement is completely welcome here. But hurtful and offensive discussion is not, even if it is in support of the "party line" (haha as if there were such a thing). And yes, I know that the word "offensive" is subjective, but for the sake of this discussion let's take it to mean "offensive to the vast majority of a community". Not "controversial", not "contrarian", not even "stupid"; I don't think anybody is proposing to prohibit dissent or stupidity. But there is no reason for discussion that is gratuitously aggressive, insulting, or derogatory; such discussion is what I mean by "offensive". > [...] I already gave you the > example of the survivors on the boat with limited food/water on IRC: > it is you who stupidly refused to throw anyone overboard, killing all > the survivors; I am the one who said that I would get them to draw > sticks to "fairly choose" who to throw overboard, maximizing the > chances of survival of the others. I am making a pragmatic argument, > based on what is best for the community; not some stuck-up idealistic > bullshit. Further, I tried to help you think through the justice > problem, by recommending an accessible course. You have either not > gone through it, or have gone through it and learnt nothing. Your idea that you can assign Thomas "homework" in ethics and call him stupid for coming to a different conclusion than you is presumptuous in the extreme. > [...] > You have embarrassed yourself and the entire git community today. This is also presumptuous, not to mention extremely ironic. In my opinion Thomas's email was calm and reasonable while yours is beyond the pale. Ram, don't just take my opinion on this matter. At the risk of being presumptuous myself, I suggest that you show a copy of your email to somebody whom you know and respect in the real world, somebody who is not immersed in the Git community meltdown. For example, somebody like your mother or father, or a teacher whom you respect, or a member of clergy if you are so inclined. Ask that person's opinion about your email. It is so easy to lose perspective in the Internet. Michael -- Michael Haggerty mhagger@alum.mit.edu http://softwareswirl.blogspot.com/