From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Felipe Contreras Subject: Re: [PATCH] remote-helpers: point at their upstream repositories Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 15:52:56 -0500 Message-ID: <537bc0a8eb91a_a6f166b308d@nysa.notmuch> References: <20140516084126.GB21468@sigill.intra.peff.net> <537693aee4fdd_3e4812032fcc@nysa.notmuch> <53795c3e58f73_10da88d30829@nysa.notmuch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Jeff King , git@vger.kernel.org To: Junio C Hamano , Felipe Contreras , Michael Haggerty X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Tue May 20 23:04:20 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.180.67]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WmrCs-00049q-9T for gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org; Tue, 20 May 2014 23:04:18 +0200 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751187AbaETVEM (ORCPT ); Tue, 20 May 2014 17:04:12 -0400 Received: from mail-ob0-f176.google.com ([209.85.214.176]:33405 "EHLO mail-ob0-f176.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1750737AbaETVEJ (ORCPT ); Tue, 20 May 2014 17:04:09 -0400 Received: by mail-ob0-f176.google.com with SMTP id wo20so1134455obc.7 for ; Tue, 20 May 2014 14:04:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=yOyUwme9W/ltkkHLIpXN46BX8Dl4LamlQ9TnhPTF/nI=; b=USzCOo6Mhtw4bPMqGNgzjGzlz0miYYtxZMFaHaH63dah+NIfvkxNejtx3sbUabbTsO oc3eiSXfmQj8uGei8h+FqpiUDGhraQn+ijGDpzl/n7YPHYVbEkdKu96oshCSsoZLu7YU OZSAm9O4nRdhJJ5v5pdxsKii2NiezmQwEf3/ChH63awSDQlzT1KtQtb7g4l+qjncbdpi Wx2oiEZEEX2CMAMFBGhShK5RrrKSJenS2Aqrwk81DcngVJ4ND+k7Cpik22ABgHX6AgSU NhyTqFJM9607X6zEV2agAk+hIZFdcI8lwBYUgQQzadQQklynvEV/NSEyK6ymv3o/SzrI cqQg== X-Received: by 10.60.145.144 with SMTP id su16mr19151624oeb.64.1400619849221; Tue, 20 May 2014 14:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (189-211-224-40.static.axtel.net. [189.211.224.40]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ux1sm5297042obc.28.2014.05.20.14.04.07 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 20 May 2014 14:04:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: Junio C Hamano wrote: > Felipe Contreras writes: > > > Junio C Hamano wrote: > >> > >> After looking at the reverse-depends list of packages, my faith is > >> strengthened in that the Git ecosystem is truly maturing and useful > >> third-party plug-ins will be picked up by distro packagers. > > > > Where is git-imerge packaged? > > I didn't see it on the archive the said Ubuntu box slurps from, but > I did not check all the other distros. I will help you: it's not packaged anywhere. > > Do you want to bet? Nah, you don't *ever* want to accept you were wrong, > > even you clearly where. > > ... > > This is what's going to happen: there won't be an official git-hg > > package for *years*, if there is ever one. That is my prediction based > > on all the available evidence, I am willing to stand by it and accept I > > was wrong if it proves otherwise. > > > > Are you willing to stand by your own decisions? > > If I understand correctly, you have made and you do maintain some > packages and as an insider, you do not have to wait for "an > outsider" to step up to make remote-{hg,bzr} packages yourself. No, you do not understand how packaging works. ArchLinux's AUR[1] is a community-driven repository, anybody can package anything and put it there. That doesn't mean people can simply do `pacman -S git-remote-hg`, far from it. It's a placeholder for *outsiders*, not official package maintainers. I am an outsider in ArchLinux. > You may already have done so for your own use and told other people > about them, and others may have chosen to wait for you to push them to > distros instead of championing these tools by packaging them > themselves. You clearly haven't tried to package anything for any distro. You can't just champion packages for a distribution. You have to go through an arduous process before becoming an official packager. > When you have such an influence on the outcome either way of your > choice, I do not see much value in such a bet. If I champion these packages I would be making you win the bet. Why would I do that? > But I actually think that "we package what we want to use" is a good > thing for programs whose primary audience is the software developer > types. The packagers are part of their audiences [*1*]. Because of > that, even if remote-{hg,bzr} do not get packaged for a long time, I > doubt that it tells us what you are stipulating. The only thing we > can infer would be that these programs did not interest the software > developer types to motivate them enough, and we wouldn't know why > they found the programs uninteresting. It may be because those who > have history in Hg prefer to interact with remote Git repositories > by pushing into and fetching from them using Hg tools than using Git > tools. It would not indicate "useful tools fall through the cracks" > if it were the case, would it? Or it might mean that the people that would otherwise do that packaging instead simply copy the single file needed manually. > Indeed I saw bzr-git that came from the Bazaar land packaged on the > box I mentioned, and its description sounded like it is meant to > work in such a way that allows Bazaar commits to be pushed to Git > repositories using a bzr tool. > > By the way, I also saw git-mediawiki packaged from contrib/ in our > tree. I found it not very credible to say "contrib/ is treated as a > single ball of wax without much value by packagers, and we need to > move the helpers up to core in order for them to be used more > widely" after seeing that. You are misconstruing what I said. I said *most* distributions treat contrib as a ball of wax. And I said there were a few *exceptions* on this ball of wax, like completions. remote-helpers are not part of these exceptions (with the exception of git-bzr). > *1* I saw you called them "wolves" at least twice recently---where > does such a distrust come from? It's a jungle out there, and it's every out-of-tree tool by itself. Most of the tools on the contrib/ area would not survive if you throw them to those "wolves", and you know it. [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_User_Repository -- Felipe Contreras