From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Junio C Hamano Subject: Re: git push default behaviour? Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 08:22:12 -0800 Message-ID: <7vobs57nij.fsf@alter.siamese.dyndns.org> References: <87k42vs8pi.fsf@thomas.inf.ethz.ch> <1331202483.21444.11.camel@beez.lab.cmartin.tk> <1331203321.21444.13.camel@beez.lab.cmartin.tk> <4F58C977.8000400@xiplink.com> <20120309033826.GA6164@sigill.intra.peff.net> <7vsjhi9wku.fsf@alter.siamese.dyndns.org> <7vwr6u6qrn.fsf@alter.siamese.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Jeff King , Dmitry Potapov , Marc Branchaud , Carlos =?utf-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADn?= Nieto , Jeremy Morton , Thomas Rast , git@vger.kernel.org To: Matthieu Moy X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Fri Mar 09 17:22:30 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.180.67]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1S62aD-0004lW-HR for gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:22:21 +0100 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1757889Ab2CIQWR (ORCPT ); Fri, 9 Mar 2012 11:22:17 -0500 Received: from b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com ([208.72.237.35]:46009 "EHLO smtp.pobox.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1757137Ab2CIQWQ (ORCPT ); Fri, 9 Mar 2012 11:22:16 -0500 Received: from smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B89D5644; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 11:22:15 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=sasl; bh=o8mPre1EpKQiQuElsZGFd5oS6Z4=; b=SG1nWW TgZ9iNy8UcWxQAkLSD8JChBFn5FHyyz4mM9fzRCnD+XYCx73Rqo5haJ1ZB8dWowI DIDt1BckEeFc2wHEyLrVSfxajfy+SQ4KHMU/L7dZ2gaecj2YWguSfPo+zvu7UhfE f5wh/5nVeFs/I378mHpZS76Kb2SJ0uzk9QTMc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; q=dns; s=sasl; b=dj9e5d72nM8Zzm+OvLKVszh3UePyKaQx +0DzDzvb/DhbzqRMKCfKvul8JzfSKVP4XqXF0zJ8I9MHyq79Sp54hqbcENpftRmR CEK+W5wf4b5nAgYhUCSMaKTkeMqkHgmskkdVk4MbZmxIuHBbbsX7H62u2tclkFJR IdL+AwOr4xA= Received: from b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E7F05642; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 11:22:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from pobox.com (unknown [76.102.170.102]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B7BEA563E; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 11:22:14 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: (Matthieu Moy's message of "Fri, 09 Mar 2012 13:11:03 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.2 (gnu/linux) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 0830BCAA-6A04-11E1-B505-9DB42E706CDE-77302942!b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: Matthieu Moy writes: > Junio C Hamano writes: > >> I can send a message saying "[...]" to the kernel list. Anybody could, >> for that matter. > > That would have been something sensible to do a few years ago, but > today, I think we are far, far beyond the point where Git was a tool > meant primarily for kernel hackers. I don't think considering the kernel > community as more important than other users will help making Git easy > to use for bare mortals. That is *EXACTLY* the issue. The kernel is one example community that *I* can cover, and if we were going to continue discussion, I'm willing to help doing so because your change will *NEVER* work unless we spread the word to *all* the relevant communities whose members may be negatively affected. That is what I am saying in the part you quoted. But I obviously *WILL* *NOT* be able to do so for *all* communities whose members may be negatively affected. Let me repeat the part you omitted from your quote: One thing I refuse to do is to fight this battle alone for "let's change the default" folks, especially when I am not convinced that it is a good change to begin with. It is "let's change the default" folks' responsibility to help the legwork. Now, you have realized that the kernel community is only one of the places where "let's change the default" folks need to spread the word and solicit their involvement, are you willing to do your part? People will complain only after a change hits them, and tell us "We didn't know that you will be making this stupid change." And having this thread here does not count as "spreading the word".