From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Junio C Hamano Subject: Re: git-cvsimport-3 and incremental imports Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 23:28:41 -0800 Message-ID: <7vr4lfgfkm.fsf@alter.siamese.dyndns.org> References: <20130120200922.GC7498@serenity.lan> <20130120232008.GA25001@thyrsus.com> <20130120234205.GC3474@elie.Belkin> <20130121010643.GA25437@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Jonathan Nieder , John Keeping , git@vger.kernel.org To: esr@thyrsus.com X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Mon Jan 21 08:29:08 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.180.67]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TxBoY-0002ST-Vb for gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 08:29:07 +0100 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752087Ab3AUH2p (ORCPT ); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 02:28:45 -0500 Received: from b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com ([208.72.237.35]:50983 "EHLO smtp.pobox.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751874Ab3AUH2o (ORCPT ); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 02:28:44 -0500 Received: from smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F45B8639; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 02:28:43 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=sasl; bh=lNZDtEKN73ertXkRzWnsVOEwQQE=; b=L8wF0q YyUkw1yAunWK2XWHKk+r+1R7/3evupECBSn+taBFPOVneLzHGAnmtTJobE7VpbuZ eP7UgkUsHdweK72BmRXkZkmKWmkSb68yIaR/D5Y4Ps1LJxBNRZDOwvoNSBVUQPRp zpSV0JZzjTr4GG6dyfZoYEc7uRjbNWIrQDpNY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; q=dns; s=sasl; b=nZI61+I3P5QRQCH2VBaMdvcLeTTOVEFt FTaAsKw5G5OBKNIRrAIjzh0IQhgdaE0xJB3OH9JPttgkl1eWykyPs6seUh7DTggO HEz1RTilNPZmFuspwtxgD+c+G9AdOdsYIqP3Czk6GJ13JgxneEToJwdbU5NIgNra ejNEwHWhDm0= Received: from b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9360A8636; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 02:28:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from pobox.com (unknown [98.234.214.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0ADDB8633; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 02:28:42 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <20130121010643.GA25437@thyrsus.com> (Eric S. Raymond's message of "Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:06:43 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.2 (gnu/linux) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 2F160432-639C-11E2-8DF3-F0CE2E706CDE-77302942!b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: "Eric S. Raymond" writes: > Jonathan Nieder : >> Junio proposed a transition strategy, but I don't think it's fair to >> say he has chosen it without discussion or is imposing it on you. > > I have said everything I could about the bad effects of encouraging > people to continue to use cvsps-2.x, it didn't budge Junio an > inch, and I'm tired of fighting about it. Quibbling about the > semantics of 'impose' will neither change these facts nor make > me any less frustrated with the outcome. I am not quite sure if I follow you. The primary thing I am aiming for is to rob an excuse from people and from their distros to block newer Git and cvsps3. I've already cited a few URLs where we can see cvsps3 is blocked with an excuse "it does not work with Git yet". If we ship new version of Git that only works with cvsps3, we will end up giving an excuse "this version of Git no longer works with cvsps2" for distro packagers whose cvsps distro maintainer is slower than others to pick up cvsps3 for whatever reason. You may care deeply about CVS conversion part of the system, but you need to realize that majority of Git users do not care a whit about cvsimport. I do not want to give those distros that ship stale cvsps an excuse to pin their users at an old version of Git. By shipping both cvsimport-2 and cvsimport-3, we will rob from these distros the excuse to block shipping the version of Git that does support cvsps3 output. They can choose to update cvsps to 3.x and disable cvsimport-2 altogether at the build time, or if their cvsps distro maintainer is slow, they can ship both cvsimport-2 and -3 and let the user install cvsps 3.x under their $HOME if they want. If you want to abandon cvsps2 users, that is perfectly fine by me. As long as cvsps3 and cvsimport-3 combo works, Git before this series will have a _working_ cvsimport as far as I am concerned. In other words, I am fine to add a paragraph at the top of the Release Notes saying that (1) cvsps2 is no longer maintained; (2) using cvsps3 is the future direction for the users; and (3) if their distro is slow to adopt cvsps3, however, cvsimport can still be used with cvsps2, but bugs in it or cvsps2 are not expected to be fixed. to nudge distros to adopt cvsps3. > I will continue to do what I can to make cvsps-3.x and cvs-fast-export as > bug-free as possible, given the innate perverseness of CVS. They > won't be perfect; they will be *better*. Yes, that is what we want.