From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Junio C Hamano Subject: Re: Official Git Homepage change? Re: git-scm.com Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:11:01 -0700 Message-ID: <7vtzedktmi.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org> References: <20080726015314.GU32184@machine.or.cz> <20080726020951.GV32184@machine.or.cz> <7v4p6dnv5k.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: "Petr Baudis" , git@vger.kernel.org To: "Scott Chacon" X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Sat Jul 26 09:12:10 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.176.167]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KMdwo-0008Kp-54 for gcvg-git-2@gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 09:12:10 +0200 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752368AbYGZHLK (ORCPT ); Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:11:10 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1752293AbYGZHLJ (ORCPT ); Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:11:09 -0400 Received: from a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com ([208.72.237.25]:49476 "EHLO sasl.smtp.pobox.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752284AbYGZHLI (ORCPT ); Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:11:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EF4A3C812; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pobox.com (ip68-225-240-211.oc.oc.cox.net [68.225.240.211]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-quonix.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 25D003C811; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:11:02 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Scott Chacon's message of "Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:43:55 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 046491F8-5AE2-11DD-9B6E-3113EBD4C077-77302942!a-sasl-quonix.pobox.com Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: "Scott Chacon" writes: > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Junio C Hamano wrote: >> ... >> These two are directly related. They might be friendly and well-meaning >> folks, but I agree that they haven't earned our trust yet. >> >> But I do not think it matters that much. >> ... >> It's also somewhat interesting to observe that several people I have never >> heard of in the git circle are simultaneously doing new git books, >> apparently never asking for much technical advice from core git people, by >> the way. > > To be honest, I have asked for a fair amount of technical advice from > many helpful people in the IRC channel over the past few years. In my > case, one of my best friends - the guy I've been working with for the > last 4 years - is Nick Hengeveld, who has something like 50 commits in > there - why email the list when I can yell a question over the cube > wall? I'm sure you all have more important things to do than review > my book for newbies - I asked Nick to do it. Ah, Nick. We haven't heard from him for quite some time. I've actually been missed him from time to time whenever http related issues came up. Please say hello to him for me ;-). > If I could code C worth a lick, I'm sure I would have contributed more > to this list, but since I have nothing that I feel would be helpful to > you, I've passively followed the list. I'm sorry that you do not > consider me a "git community member" just because I don't code C, and > so I can't contribute helpfully to core. I realize I may have sounded somewhat harsh, but that was not my intention. And I do not think what you said is fair, either. We have had quite a few end user questions on this list, but I do not seem to recall any of the names of the book writers, whose books are presumably aimed at these people, answering them. Granted, core coders may be busy bunch of people, and the questions and comments from new people sometimes tend to be lost in flurry of patch floods. I and other core coders would have greatly appreciated if non-coder experts like yourself helped these threads that have never panned out. I am not complaining. This cuts both ways. The patch floods do tend to discourage new people from asking basic questions, and lack of answers even more so. But it is not healthy for people who design and code not to hear end user feedback. I personally would want to see the list traffic to be inclusive. The people who design the new features and write code should have easy access to the issues the users of all levels have with the software and the documentation (and what they find useful as well). What I am most afraid of is that both "We do not bother the coders" and "We are too busy to answer every newbie question" mentalities would lead to a fractured community.