From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (woodpecker.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 478851D6DA9 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2025 11:32:50 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=140.211.166.183 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1757071973; cv=none; b=AFLGBGF5PlL4LbrnZ/DaatPrdDGZqxz1CQVJereL6senSLhZ2d8qKFdjK91p/iMXKZGtGmOxggwR2eXh0Tt8s+k6hd1r/HeZzRU0WJInBs9+/sT/41+wVdHMZYTRW/8ysFan9Wd3A/KnVPA0pKX7Uybqh26bL7MNU5aFwqS42mA= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1757071973; c=relaxed/simple; bh=s2RfVqYVQjp4VPL340wQ6TS2cvPAK6u9HxSpFXTCJAM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=lkEsvTT1fN/4Pd/n3+6houZLMLQlscTrkYSe63How1+VLAT0yqi4yfRSn4nCkWLuDpaz/cLX3HyergH6UNzOkQ6isG9bRGzFX3A6IpAZ/ilAFJvCp1/TwL/awkEgB9zkFO3lUXFeZplRzosuGj57nNk7SUD8tqzbCMUscTL8oxA= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gentoo.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gentoo.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=140.211.166.183 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gentoo.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gentoo.org Received: from mop.sam.mop (2.8.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.a.5.c.d.c.d.9.1.0.b.8.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa [IPv6:2001:8b0:19dc:dc5a::382]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange secp256r1 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: sam) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 037213406BF; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 11:32:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Sam James To: Phillip Wood Cc: Elijah Newren , Patrick Steinhardt , phillip.wood@dunelm.org.uk, "brian m. carlson" , Junio C Hamano , Taylor Blau , rsbecker@nexbridge.com, Kristoffer Haugsbakk , Josh Soref , git@vger.kernel.org, Christian Brabandt , Eli Schwartz , "Haelwenn (lanodan) Monnier" , Johannes Schindelin , Matthias =?utf-8?Q?A=C3=9Fhauer?= , Collin Funk , Mike Hommey , Pierre-Emmanuel Patry , "D. Ben Knoble" , Ramsay Jones , Ezekiel Newren , Josh Steadmon , Calvin Wan Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 02/15] xdiff: introduce rust In-Reply-To: Organization: Gentoo References: <01f101dc1760$5eef42b0$1ccdc810$@nexbridge.com> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.12; emacs 31.0.50 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 12:32:44 +0100 Message-ID: <87cy85f82r.fsf@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Phillip Wood writes: > Hi Elijah > > On 05/09/2025 04:54, Elijah Newren wrote: >> (1) "without advance notice" was already pointed out to be >> inaccurate >> in this thread, including in the exact email you are responding to; >> you could argue that there hasn't been _sufficient_ advance notice, >> but then there should be more details about what is and isn't >> sufficient. Merely repeating this claim which brian just barely >> pointed out to you as false almost feels dishonest. > > I think there is a difference of understanding of what constitutes > "advanced notice". While it is true that there have been discussions > on the list for a couple of years where people were clearly > enthusiastic about adopting rust those discussions have always petered > out after concerns about portability were raised without us actually > adopting rust. In those discussions there has been no clear conclusion > about whether rust would be mandatory or optional. I think from the > point of view of an outsider who was following the mailing list it has > not been clear exactly where the rust discussion was going. For > someone not following the mailing list but just reading the release > notes there has been no indication that we're thinking of rust > mandatory for building git as opposed to offering rust bindings for > our C code. > >> (2) "pull the rug away" seems hyperbolic. I would have liked some >> explanation as to how a transition period is expected to help, and how >> the existing transition period has been insufficient. > > I'm very unclear what "the existing transition period" has been > >> [...] > (4) you suggest that adding Rust as an optional component > should avoid >> the problem, yet we've already had Rust as an optional component for >> the last three releases, going back to 2.49.0. (libgit-rs and >> libgit-sys). > > Right but from the point of view of someone trying to build git on a > platform without rust support there is a world of difference between > having some optional bindings for rust external projects to use, and > making rust mandatory to build git. Entirely agreed with the whole email. I'll make some further observations wrt bindings: 1) Distributions often don't enable bindings for languages unless a user requests them, or at the very least they're considered low priority (and bindings existing for a language in a project do *not* imply the project is going to be rewritten in that language); 2) There would be no value in distributions building Rust bindings because Rust doesn't really support "system-wide" libraries. It doesn't make sense as far as I can tell to install the bindings right now. I don't even know where Rust bindings should be installed to, I've never seen a package want them installed before. 3) It's not integrated with the Meson build system we're using so I wouldn't have paid any attention to it, at least unless a user requested it; 4) It's in contrib/. > > I would like us to adopt rust but I am concerned about the > implications for platforms without rust and think we should give some > notice in the form a clear announcement in the release notes once we > have a concrete plan. That plan should include a decision on what > commitment we can realistically offer with regard to security updates > for platforms without a rust compiler so maintainers on those > platforms have a clear idea of how long they will be supported. > > Thanks > > Phillip sam