From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Thomas Rast Subject: Re: [PATCH-w 101/105] t6300 (for-each-ref): modernize style Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 09:42:51 +0100 Message-ID: <87ty28n244.fsf@thomas.inf.ethz.ch> References: <1330566326-26075-1-git-send-email-tmgrennan@gmail.com> <1330566326-26075-7-git-send-email-tmgrennan@gmail.com> <7v62epqd9a.fsf@alter.siamese.dyndns.org> <20120301032053.GD2572@tgrennan-laptop> <7vty29ovcd.fsf@alter.siamese.dyndns.org> <20120301051010.GE2572@tgrennan-laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: Junio C Hamano , , Jeff King , Carlos Rica , Andy Parkins , "Shawn O. Pearce" , Amos Waterland , Johannes Schindelin To: Tom Grennan X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Thu Mar 01 09:43:01 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.180.67]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1S31bG-0002qa-V3 for gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2012 09:42:59 +0100 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S932415Ab2CAIm4 (ORCPT ); Thu, 1 Mar 2012 03:42:56 -0500 Received: from edge10.ethz.ch ([82.130.75.186]:55594 "EHLO edge10.ethz.ch" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S932379Ab2CAImy (ORCPT ); Thu, 1 Mar 2012 03:42:54 -0500 Received: from CAS11.d.ethz.ch (172.31.38.211) by edge10.ethz.ch (82.130.75.186) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 1 Mar 2012 09:42:51 +0100 Received: from thomas.inf.ethz.ch.ethz.ch (129.132.153.233) by CAS11.d.ethz.ch (172.31.38.211) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 1 Mar 2012 09:42:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20120301051010.GE2572@tgrennan-laptop> (Tom Grennan's message of "Wed, 29 Feb 2012 21:10:10 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.3 (gnu/linux) X-Originating-IP: [129.132.153.233] Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: I sent out a reply to the same effect as Junio's longer one in this side-thread. You can disregard that. Sorry for not first reading the whole thread. Tom Grennan writes: > On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 07:26:10PM -0800, Junio C Hamano wrote: >>Tom Grennan writes: >> >>> It's trivial to remove these "quiet" and "silent", but to me that's the >>> only value added by these patches. More seriously, the remaining >>> modernization still seems much larger than its value. >> >>Don't do that, then ;-). >> >>Some older scripts do redirect the output from the commands to /dev/null >>but that dates back before we made the default reasonably silent, and in >>"modern" style we tend to keep them sent to their standard output to help >>debuggability. These quiet/silent takes us to the prehistoric times. > > Hey! I am prehistoric:-) > > Like I said, I think there is currently a debug distraction with verbose > mode. However, rather than hiding expected failures and diverting other > output as I had, perhaps we should dup stderr to stdout in verbose mode > so error messages show up near the logged invocation when piped through > a pager (i.e. mimic "|&"). With this, one can quickly scan past the > noise to focus on the broken cases. If you have trouble finding the broken case, you can run with -v -i. I also think you are making an argument for a different feature (which does not rob us of having all the debug output): test-lib.sh could perhaps redirect the test output to a file, and dump the file to stdout only if the test failed. Perhaps --verbose-failing or something like that. Otherwise, your proposal is restricting us to having only an "easily scannable" amount of output per test, perhaps 5-15 lines. Which I personally think is an insane restriction for something that was intended for debugging in the first place. -- Thomas Rast trast@{inf,student}.ethz.ch