From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F151C433DB for ; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 00:54:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D49622517 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 00:54:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727719AbgLXAyB (ORCPT ); Wed, 23 Dec 2020 19:54:01 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:45736 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726288AbgLXAyB (ORCPT ); Wed, 23 Dec 2020 19:54:01 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x532.google.com (mail-ed1-x532.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::532]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2A9DC061794 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 16:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x532.google.com with SMTP id dk8so873161edb.1 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 16:53:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:user-agent:in-reply-to:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=66nWlEd1QDWvUkkLjEujYktd0w0PTDF7QZLAGRDE1kE=; b=Hoe7g34tgQ0uHerHkf50lzAHpjQmb8MFxzXzavNxedTE5lpROW86ByWAcYvS1k+9On a2pzmx4nNp+IF6zAEbt68+IjlX98o+JHTrU0jrRZmQ1uOvAV40FN+uHfyC4eEI87hMqT jDD4LrM3WUWlq3+kvPjjWFx/G5er2UgTXjAr1lcc1jg6kMN7e4anbZ/cdkMPK6gURlU1 3HVGO3O72YtM24nXE98fpUGFAQAzA1HggEudkan+OmxOha++KQRGT2ZRoMBxEsBKdQ1N 6eF2wllbpSRPB1fY4F9EEQ4i+YX20taPzk8hrBrjRcz+1bF1UxXTEEbfvo7n4mEnB51Y QFCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:user-agent :in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=66nWlEd1QDWvUkkLjEujYktd0w0PTDF7QZLAGRDE1kE=; b=AiT7ch4oxPDg/h98ggvaNqs57oBq6PQbx/7VDR/buxd2QU+UAXvjGMeTIqq0g71oH8 Pi2KBqTyac67nFoBKm4ljUtAOW449SoJDJ0wMrGJUTSNd7u6QwmXxWBOucqAlPe+fZsA 0m4rDdY0s6PW8fZ4pEThnn0WRPYIP50xkB0NCLWpIiS2QAqdSNnTH12X/f/IGUdPy+sL /Jd1W7nuWcBLSBoKhHkWKWUHObjy0h7Z3yaLqTaMQMuE8dRMeRVmdwm8j/XUirwUt0Sz BrQucuhmWMI5hDLmDCkL0wtIWvK+OgC3h5TuWZkHz6bieh6upIJ9GxF8Z1jaEcVjEVVl o8ww== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531+ij/9QxrmKn6zGNTGBHC2VazTNZmuQlv0DgK0sSxMPRaG1WBf gYmnMDzPJ0U/zbi34oxq54chCCosMwMhRA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzqsTsNS6pBj8nVWdI+gqC2SaCOosRuyelry5IFl23wa6PcR3yhiEhcFEI7LxVItn27m5GnwQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:17:: with SMTP id d23mr26993557edu.341.1608771198953; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 16:53:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from evledraar (157-157-127-103.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is. [157.157.127.103]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r24sm31283572edo.4.2020.12.23.16.53.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 23 Dec 2020 16:53:18 -0800 (PST) From: =?utf-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsA==?= Bjarmason To: Felipe Contreras Cc: git@vger.kernel.org, git@sfconservancy.org, Christian Couder , Jeff King , 'Junio C Hamano ' Subject: Re: [PATCH] CODE_OF_CONDUCT: expect tolerance, not respect References: <20201223061718.102779-1-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> User-agent: Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid; Emacs 27.1; mu4e 1.4.13 In-reply-to: <20201223061718.102779-1-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2020 01:53:16 +0100 Message-ID: <87wnx8uirn.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On Wed, Dec 23 2020, Felipe Contreras wrote: > * Using welcoming and inclusive language > -* Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences > +* Being tolerant of differing viewpoints and experiences > * Gracefully accepting constructive criticism > * Focusing on what is best for the community > * Showing empathy towards other community members [I happen to be on the PLC, and I'm not speaking for the PLC, just myself] Generally speaking, and not just commenting on this specific patch: I'm not in principle against us forking the upstream CoC if we as a project & community deem that a worthy trade-off for whatever reason. But in the case of this specific patch, (and I'm focusing on points not already raised by others): 1. The specific wording you're changing is something that changed in the CoC from version 1.4 (which we adopted) to upstream's 2.0. My reading of the 2.0 wording is that it contradicts your interpretation, it talks about "being respectful of differing opinions". If the CoC means to enforce something about privately held views as you seem to suggest (and not just behavior in public), then it seems like a paradox to me that it also asks participants to be respectful of differing opinions. To be clear I don't agree with your reading of it. I'm just suggesting that any proposed updates to the CoC that rely on reading specific intent into the wording therein attempt to do the legwork of convincing this ML to accept the proposed change in a way that provides more context for the change. Discussing that upstream has changed the relevant part from A to B, but we're proposing a change from A to C seems highly relevant. 2. The CoC has official translations into a bunch of languages: https://www.contributor-covenant.org/translations/ So I think that even if we deem a git.git-specific change to the CoC to be worthwhile losing a 1=1 mapping between our version and those translations should give us pause since we'd be less inclusive to non-native English speaking contributors of the project. Furthermore, I think a really basic sanity check on any specific reading or interpretation of the CoC is to see if also holds true if you read some of the official translations. In the language I speak natively this reading of "respect" doesn't agree with your interpretation. It's a really tiny language (Icelandic) whose translation is likely to have received little to no peer review (I didn't look into it), but presumably speakers of other languages can chime on this point if needed.