From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19716C7618E for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 17:28:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S231728AbjDXR2y (ORCPT ); Mon, 24 Apr 2023 13:28:54 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:53464 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S232284AbjDXR2j (ORCPT ); Mon, 24 Apr 2023 13:28:39 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x631.google.com (mail-ej1-x631.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::631]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3A54FC for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 10:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x631.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-95678d891d6so810081766b.1 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 10:28:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1682357316; x=1684949316; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=UyzzXat1HLHTRyQcfQCmDRa3WHfmnd49q85xb1Q41zQ=; b=eNoSlIYvFwumb1dP5PlmgpIutKL4sVDmqU81Sqzs5SZkKlLvXap9V5TschpxgO6PTK Dp1+Fydj48bmfvrVRBfFHS4tZuPdcoC856MBFCZ/T78/yTppjy/NZqmoF3FbfFwHsyuZ umyAdndL2auikA8W5tbhbLXCTjyQu2lw0d/t5j3EIfTbIvkwR0a0nRmxt5Zc3dHNW1WZ UcE/uYDIfogwAtIP03sROotwe1Hz25iiRLo7ZFP0yFpSmg7OBxqEcRKHkJd4wHtEA5/l 8kYzWE8II7iPM7rE/Rz4kDRMC2hLIjWKLpft43aF/5V5AdR+5GAibaJSRuAWboOKeS5l 3d+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1682357316; x=1684949316; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=UyzzXat1HLHTRyQcfQCmDRa3WHfmnd49q85xb1Q41zQ=; b=Uwc2Hz+r4k7oQGL7G1VeLCcKaxf3V3hQPoAgYBMl10NHI5abhBcRJHy5q6vJuEnidu ZbxgpfT+kGCBQ05sw8HEzfkhMgxBKTKhRp7dKa+Wt/9OCZtGkU+TPCSJ1aIRA/VaZqqa nqX8aoz5fhjRf0qApFfFD8hHfksgexlj4whngXDbrrowJ9Sr48D2W2FBwkkT4/pE2hsq nhtRa8nStRT0T7roKr7BYg0BxZZHHYp7YLXKe/zGnCPoEBs6xxoukYIJliHDJR1eTT6J jqkXhEduPmgCNUdItzo0MZb1UKi3izss7e6Qpz+rzyjMLe2k/ebLKOWqcsate+8MPGDV oKhg== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9f9OgsS6MQ0KTQOCLWLPMxR7psuFBRV1h7lKxe275gjfyWnDaCm tQWbCKn4m9EMiHaxq6T8ZY2s+Lsm5+gSBY1MPjGGItba8gE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350YMlZdDJ2/OCP+OGFYSpBpCftCoNfMzHDPAKSxBGasuRBha3Y2BYt8w01wiWqrMNWsCjF4gjNo/M68wmWLAwRg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:f152:b0:885:a62c:5a5c with SMTP id gw18-20020a170906f15200b00885a62c5a5cmr9978196ejb.46.1682357315608; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 10:28:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Aman Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 22:58:23 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: On understanding, exploring and abstractions. To: Git List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org a follow up for everyone. On Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 9:24=E2=80=AFPM Aman wrote: > > Hello everyone. > > This is Aman, I am a high school student. And, > > "I DON'T know how computers (and modern software) works AT ALL". > > I have no idea, except about the abstractions I play on. I understand > the case for abstractions, they are what, (arguably or not) run the > world forward. > > But it is really , And by really, I mean really frustrating. To the > point where I don't quite enjoy programming (despite the fact that I > have had exposure to "programming" for quite some time). I am > fascinated by these things around me, computers run the world, and I > REALLY want to understand them, just for the sake of it (I guess). > > I believe what made computers fun, in the old days, was the ability to > really talk to it. (even Linus tells this in the "beauty of > Programming chapter" in his book, which was written 20 years ago!) > Even C feels like an abstraction, hey the "magic" of compilers, and > libraries. > > Even people around me, and 99% of people I find on the internet, to > discuss issues like this, too, don't know how a computer, and modern > software (which runs the world) really works. And people seem to get > fine by it, which is not necessarily bad, but really frustrating to > me. > > And my question is, How do I do it? Should I try to build my own > computer? Create a CPU in Verilog on an FPGA. Write an assembler, > bootloaders, operating system kernels, compilers, etc.? But what about > wanting to read how the modern systems work? But if I want to know how > LLVM or Linux works? Or how a modern compiler is created? > > People have discouraged me to read source codes, and software > architectures, saying it may not be worthwhile, even IF you could do > it. So what could be done? > > Maybe, the right question isn't what to do, but why do I want to, so > perhaps we can systematically deduce what to do about it. So why? I > guess, if you see life as a playground, and I have come into this > world, I'd be an interesting task to learn how it all works. This may > be a bad idea, and I am open to others. Since nobody I have met, yet, > has expressed something like this, I don't know if I am living in a > rock (probably I am anyway). > > But learning how a computer (like your phone) works from scratch, > isn't that interesting, and not knowing, down right frustrating to > anyone reading this email? Or is it just me for some reason? > > And it goes both ways right? , even if I create a simple compiler, > it'll still be a simple one. Won't it be more interesting to work on > things that I might use, and others might get value from too. > > So this is the dilemma of an 18 year old, confused about what to do about= it. > > (btw, If you reading this, are a hardware person, making chips or > something, do you feel like a king/queen? since everyone builds on top > of what you do) > > Regards, > Aman