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[104.178.186.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c7sm1817967iob.28.2021.11.08.14.06.48 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 Nov 2021 14:06:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 17:06:47 -0500 From: Taylor Blau To: =?utf-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsA==?= Bjarmason Cc: Junio C Hamano , Jeff King , git@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: move some test-tools to 'unstable plumbing' built-ins Message-ID: References: <211106.86fss9hq3f.gmgdl@evledraar.gmail.com> <211108.86zgqee6rm.gmgdl@evledraar.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <211108.86zgqee6rm.gmgdl@evledraar.gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Nov 08, 2021 at 09:19:10PM +0100, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 08 2021, Junio C Hamano wrote: > > > Taylor Blau writes: > > > >> In my experience I *rarely* rely on test-helpers when debugging wedged > >> repositories, and much more often end up either in gdb, or in an > >> anonymized copy of the repository on a different server. I would imagine > >> that others have similar experiences. > >> > >> So unless we had a much more compelling reason to have the test helpers > >> more readily available, I do not think that the risk our users will > >> begin to depend on these unstable tools is worth taking. > > > > OK. It sounds like a sensible argument against such a change. > > It's an argument against not flipping "make installing them be optional" > flag on by default, but we could otherwise move some of t/helper to > builtin/, which would help by encouraging us to write at least > boilerplate docs for them. > > Git developers & similar parties could then set them to be installed for > ad-hoc debugging. I was talking about users not heeding our warning, but I'm still not really that compelled by making the test-helpers an optional component in our build. I am pretty sure I have only reached for the test-helpers less than half a dozen times over the years, and *much* more often find myself in a debugger. If I'm in the minority (and there really are a lot of administrators who find it useful to have the test-tools on hand), then that is a different story, but my guiding assumption is that that isn't the case. > I really don't buy the argument that there's no amount of warnings in > our documentation that we can include which would give us future license > to willy-nilly change certain things. My point was only that we cannot guarantee that users read or care about our documentation. Thanks, Taylor