From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from ring.crustytoothpaste.net (ring.crustytoothpaste.net [172.105.110.227]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78AC3BA24 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2024 01:53:29 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=172.105.110.227 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1706838812; cv=none; b=ZWCNDekfN6WiKkW4i4ro7g8AKF8uhoJy1395yWWTrXzcOefLwWK6xAOpGQCGPnYRI8W2mb9jWajy8YdjGKBzONGkonYlhqZdEqdP93n6NhlFNe5nDvPvPrB7u06B6npBn0cwvYp8LjBW+KMbtW1BgjKx/shhcVEQk0jZC202JEs= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1706838812; c=relaxed/simple; bh=HW4kD+f/5G4Fq06yREearRzivFnUEYP78TF+WM2MdGE=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=Le67qf3wmjvhK+rkwicYtYBpZLsifRVti2yjg3ufWi4v7d9HtU3YnGt5D+R/uGCokiCIteyiBfPjhi+c9Ac/DC6StUd/r7+IDC2w+5zXeC0dFDD2rqP9gml0dtYZ69jNHArpyD6C3Uj1pwhQzkrUOdSfFDnssRTXlxVcT60jJH8= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=crustytoothpaste.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=crustytoothpaste.net; dkim=pass (3072-bit key) header.d=crustytoothpaste.net header.i=@crustytoothpaste.net header.b=n1X3xL71; arc=none smtp.client-ip=172.105.110.227 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=crustytoothpaste.net Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=crustytoothpaste.net Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (3072-bit key) header.d=crustytoothpaste.net header.i=@crustytoothpaste.net header.b="n1X3xL71" Received: from tapette.crustytoothpaste.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:b056:101:e59a:3ed0:5f5c:31f3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (3072 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ring.crustytoothpaste.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DBEA95A41A; Fri, 2 Feb 2024 01:44:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=crustytoothpaste.net; s=default; t=1706838244; bh=HW4kD+f/5G4Fq06yREearRzivFnUEYP78TF+WM2MdGE=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Content-Type: Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To:From:Reply-To:Subject:Date:To:CC: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:Content-Disposition; b=n1X3xL71rB0gBBpAM5CuqH8RZAVA/UlyMK+QuNV9uhQYD9TvFy4BffO2denz+pr6t MoB3h3PIv+oU2rtOU7SA+IuyA2+vl90lLD7sMoyXojvPyR5L/hFAsSKQ84KQmorxo5 KcwK+biLcGFnigWElj4mszz5wFNiPVRPWckHIdrg43kn3vd+Lkpca62aQH4nnMnVAM mxbbKBEHQ859Z1rQB/MT3g5G/ndFkIU8Y6bKDi8zAmIQoL19lXinpZZ81lzkOPn6XU vFV/56hRg9/+U5EAKJa05RJyLympg5xMiBWENpixIVXqtTIxGNJciSlpnD4o54+nz6 0X5Xy4NILKQ8Brp/l7E9TtDRP/3gOCqIuCd+jbecT5/PxxVY1bVAE3K0uWofhmxQPL QAQxUjqEvtGZX0VtiW8TjmP7/YBbQrG1/C8SOgU7FJtmVFuBnE1RQ4u/GVg4igdBV3 RxP8u9XGHDkCLNvePhhKW9p74ohDebdQtwUzq5ujg9N6r0Lk1nX Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2024 01:44:03 +0000 From: "brian m. carlson" To: Hans Meiser Cc: Dragan Simic , Konstantin Ryabitsev , "git@vger.kernel.org" Subject: Re: Migrate away from vger to GitHub or (on-premise) GitLab? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: "brian m. carlson" , Hans Meiser , Dragan Simic , Konstantin Ryabitsev , "git@vger.kernel.org" References: <20240201-primitive-aardwark-of-contentment-aaabb9@lemur> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="UPqonseOJ2bFxRpf" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.12 (2023-09-09) --UPqonseOJ2bFxRpf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2024-02-01 at 18:36:48, Hans Meiser wrote: > > Could you, please, clarify what kind of git documentation are you > > referring to?=C2=A0 Are you having git man pages in mind? >=20 > Yes, these in particular. >=20 > From my point of view, many of these are quite unorganized, hard to > read and =E2=80=93 as I believe =E2=80=93 need a fix-up. Markdown could r= eplace the > currently used language, so editing them would be more easy, proving > support for preview and lint the documentation. We've discussed moving to Markdown. Unfortunately, while Markdown is great for HTML, it's pretty terrible for things that are not HTML. Certainly there are tools that convert Markdown to other formats, but I'm not aware of any single tool (outside of Pandoc[0]) that does so into all the formats we offer, including HTML, PDF, Texinfo, and manual pages. Markdown also comes in a large variety of variants and writing documentation to please any substantial number of tools is very difficult. AsciiDoc supports converting into all of those things either directly or through DocBook, and it's flexible enough to allow a decent amount of customization, which we take advantage of. It also has relatively little variation. Both of these are part of the reason that Git LFS moved from Markdown to AsciiDoc. > >Quite frankly, I think you've missed some important points from the > > Konstantin's message.=C2=A0 To sum it up a bit, not having continuous s= upport > > is simply unacceptable for any kind of a long-term project. >=20 > As I wrote, once installed on-premise, no-one will shut down an > on-premise git server except for yourself. It can run for eternity. > You just need someone to administer it properly and publish the > website. Yes, and that would be someone at kernel.org, which is a nonprofit. Maintaining a busy Git server takes server resources and sufficient staffing to ensure that things work properly and that problems are resolved in a timely manner. It also comes with potential security risks. The mail-based approach will likely remain for the Linux kernel, so someone will have to maintain this in addition. Are you offering to provide long-term funding to kernel.org to provide the necessary resources and staffing? > In the end, it's all just about git. You may create your own git > webserver (https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-on-the-Server-GitWeb), > or just use an existing one, like the GitLab server: > https://about.gitlab.com/install/ The Git project has tried for a long time to be neutral on any particular external piece of software. Installing a GitLab server as our preferred development platform would promote GitLab as the preferred forge to other users. Similarly, moving to GitHub would prefer GitHub over other forges. That's not a thing we want to do. We also don't accept patches or features for the benefit of one particular forge or external project. Patches and features must be of general benefit to the project at large. [0] Pandoc is built in Haskell using GHC, which has decent architecture support, but quite poor OS support outside of the most common platforms. Relying on it would be a serious regression in terms of documentation support. --=20 brian m. carlson (he/him or they/them) Toronto, Ontario, CA --UPqonseOJ2bFxRpf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iHUEABYKAB0WIQQILOaKnbxl+4PRw5F8DEliiIeigQUCZbxI4gAKCRB8DEliiIei gR74AQDhp+drXfAeSKp3+jb2ELSOqFkYhrh2LJ26BAYHyGobswD/SFeD06zyrm/2 UnHGlrEfFbknbBKHOiM1JuRxi8eBpw4= =Y7yj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UPqonseOJ2bFxRpf--