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From: Taylor Blau <me@ttaylorr.com>
To: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>
Cc: Patrick Steinhardt <ps@pks.im>,
	git@vger.kernel.org, Jeff King <peff@peff.net>,
	"brian m. carlson" <sandals@crustytoothpaste.net>,
	Elijah Newren <newren@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/4] hash.h: scaffolding for _fast hashing variants
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2024 15:52:53 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ZtdpFWtWae2r4Lj4@nand.local> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <xmqqh6awlkac.fsf@gitster.g>

On Tue, Sep 03, 2024 at 10:27:39AM -0700, Junio C Hamano wrote:
> Patrick Steinhardt <ps@pks.im> writes:
>
> > While the property we care about in the context of this patch series
> > indeed is that the second hash is faster, I think the more important
> > property is that it's insecure. If I were seeing two APIs, one labelled
> > fast and one labelled slow, I would of course pick the fast one. So I
> > wonder whether we should rename things accordingly so that developers
> > aren't intrigued to pick the fast one without thinking, and also to have
> > a more useful signal that stands out to reviewers.
>
> I do not think this topic is going in the direction it set out to,
> but if we are to resurrect it by
>
>  (1) first to ensure that we won't overwrite existing on-disk files
>      and other things as needed to safely swap the tail sum to a
>      cryptographically insecure hash function;

I discussed this with brian in the sub-thread where I am talking to
them, but I think this is already the case. The pack is read in
index-pack and the checksum is verified without using the _fast hash
functions, so we would detect:

  - either half of a colliding pair of objects, when reading individual
    objects' contents to determine their SHA-1s, or

  - a colliding pack checksum, when computing the whole pack's checksum
    (which also does not use the _fast variants of these functions), and

  - a mismatched pack checksum, when verifying the pack's checksum
    against the one stored in the pack.

>  (2) devise a transition plan to use a hash function that computes a
>      value that is different from SHA-1 (or SHA-256 for that
>      matter); and
>
>  (3) pick a hash function that computes a lot faster but is insecure
>      and transition to it.

So I do not think that either of these two steps are necessary.

Thanks,
Taylor

  reply	other threads:[~2024-09-03 19:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 99+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-09-01 16:03 [PATCH 0/4] hash.h: support choosing a separate SHA-1 for non-cryptographic uses Taylor Blau
2024-09-01 16:03 ` [PATCH 1/4] sha1: do not redefine `platform_SHA_CTX` and friends Taylor Blau
2024-09-02 13:41   ` Patrick Steinhardt
2024-09-03 19:34     ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-01 16:03 ` [PATCH 2/4] hash.h: scaffolding for _fast hashing variants Taylor Blau
2024-09-02 13:41   ` Patrick Steinhardt
2024-09-03 17:27     ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-03 19:52       ` Taylor Blau [this message]
2024-09-03 20:47         ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-03 21:24           ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-04  7:05           ` Patrick Steinhardt
2024-09-04 14:53             ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-03 19:40     ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-01 16:03 ` [PATCH 3/4] Makefile: allow specifying a SHA-1 for non-cryptographic uses Taylor Blau
2024-09-02 13:41   ` Patrick Steinhardt
2024-09-03 19:43     ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-01 16:03 ` [PATCH 4/4] csum-file.c: use fast SHA-1 implementation when available Taylor Blau
2024-09-02 13:41   ` Patrick Steinhardt
2024-09-03  1:22     ` brian m. carlson
2024-09-03 19:50     ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-02  3:41 ` [PATCH 0/4] hash.h: support choosing a separate SHA-1 for non-cryptographic uses Junio C Hamano
2024-09-03 19:48   ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-03 20:44     ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-02 14:08 ` brian m. carlson
2024-09-03 19:47   ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-03 22:41     ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-04 14:01     ` brian m. carlson
2024-09-05 10:37     ` Jeff King
2024-09-05 15:41       ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-05 16:23         ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-05 16:51           ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-05 17:04             ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-05 17:51               ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-05 20:21                 ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-05 20:27               ` Jeff King
2024-09-05 21:27                 ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-05 15:11 ` [PATCH v2 " Taylor Blau
2024-09-05 15:12   ` [PATCH v2 1/4] sha1: do not redefine `platform_SHA_CTX` and friends Taylor Blau
2024-09-05 15:12   ` [PATCH v2 2/4] hash.h: scaffolding for _fast hashing variants Taylor Blau
2024-09-05 15:12   ` [PATCH v2 3/4] Makefile: allow specifying a SHA-1 for non-cryptographic uses Taylor Blau
2024-09-05 15:12   ` [PATCH v2 4/4] csum-file.c: use fast SHA-1 implementation when available Taylor Blau
2024-09-06 19:46 ` [PATCH v3 0/9] hash.h: support choosing a separate SHA-1 for non-cryptographic uses Taylor Blau
2024-09-06 19:46   ` [PATCH v3 1/9] finalize_object_file(): check for name collision before renaming Taylor Blau
2024-09-06 19:46   ` [PATCH v3 2/9] finalize_object_file(): refactor unlink_or_warn() placement Taylor Blau
2024-09-06 19:46   ` [PATCH v3 3/9] finalize_object_file(): implement collision check Taylor Blau
2024-09-06 21:44     ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-06 21:51       ` Chris Torek
2024-09-10  6:53       ` Jeff King
2024-09-10 15:14         ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-16 10:45     ` Patrick Steinhardt
2024-09-16 15:54       ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-16 16:03         ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-17 20:40       ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-06 19:46   ` [PATCH v3 4/9] pack-objects: use finalize_object_file() to rename pack/idx/etc Taylor Blau
2024-09-06 19:46   ` [PATCH v3 5/9] i5500-git-daemon.sh: use compile-able version of Git without OpenSSL Taylor Blau
2024-09-11  6:10     ` Jeff King
2024-09-11  6:12       ` Jeff King
2024-09-12 20:28         ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-11 15:28       ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-11 21:23         ` Jeff King
2024-09-06 19:46   ` [PATCH v3 6/9] sha1: do not redefine `platform_SHA_CTX` and friends Taylor Blau
2024-09-06 19:46   ` [PATCH v3 7/9] hash.h: scaffolding for _fast hashing variants Taylor Blau
2024-09-06 19:46   ` [PATCH v3 8/9] Makefile: allow specifying a SHA-1 for non-cryptographic uses Taylor Blau
2024-09-06 19:46   ` [PATCH v3 9/9] csum-file.c: use fast SHA-1 implementation when available Taylor Blau
2024-09-06 21:50   ` [PATCH v3 0/9] hash.h: support choosing a separate SHA-1 for non-cryptographic uses Junio C Hamano
2024-09-24 17:32 ` [PATCH v4 0/8] " Taylor Blau
2024-09-24 17:32   ` [PATCH v4 1/8] finalize_object_file(): check for name collision before renaming Taylor Blau
2024-09-25 17:02     ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-24 17:32   ` [PATCH v4 2/8] finalize_object_file(): refactor unlink_or_warn() placement Taylor Blau
2024-09-24 17:32   ` [PATCH v4 3/8] finalize_object_file(): implement collision check Taylor Blau
2024-09-24 20:37     ` Jeff King
2024-09-24 21:59       ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-24 22:20         ` Jeff King
2024-09-25 18:06           ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-24 21:32     ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-24 22:02       ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-24 17:32   ` [PATCH v4 4/8] pack-objects: use finalize_object_file() to rename pack/idx/etc Taylor Blau
2024-09-24 21:34     ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-24 17:32   ` [PATCH v4 5/8] sha1: do not redefine `platform_SHA_CTX` and friends Taylor Blau
2024-09-24 17:32   ` [PATCH v4 6/8] hash.h: scaffolding for _unsafe hashing variants Taylor Blau
2024-09-24 17:32   ` [PATCH v4 7/8] Makefile: allow specifying a SHA-1 for non-cryptographic uses Taylor Blau
2024-09-24 17:32   ` [PATCH v4 8/8] csum-file.c: use unsafe SHA-1 implementation when available Taylor Blau
2024-09-24 20:52   ` [PATCH v4 0/8] hash.h: support choosing a separate SHA-1 for non-cryptographic uses Jeff King
2024-09-25 16:58   ` Elijah Newren
2024-09-25 17:11     ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-25 17:22       ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-25 17:22     ` Taylor Blau
2024-09-26 15:22 ` [PATCH v5 " Taylor Blau
2024-09-26 15:22   ` [PATCH v5 1/8] finalize_object_file(): check for name collision before renaming Taylor Blau
2024-09-26 15:22   ` [PATCH v5 2/8] finalize_object_file(): refactor unlink_or_warn() placement Taylor Blau
2024-09-26 15:22   ` [PATCH v5 3/8] finalize_object_file(): implement collision check Taylor Blau
2024-09-26 15:22   ` [PATCH v5 4/8] pack-objects: use finalize_object_file() to rename pack/idx/etc Taylor Blau
2024-09-26 15:22   ` [PATCH v5 5/8] sha1: do not redefine `platform_SHA_CTX` and friends Taylor Blau
2024-09-26 15:22   ` [PATCH v5 6/8] hash.h: scaffolding for _unsafe hashing variants Taylor Blau
2024-09-26 15:22   ` [PATCH v5 7/8] Makefile: allow specifying a SHA-1 for non-cryptographic uses Taylor Blau
2024-09-26 15:22   ` [PATCH v5 8/8] csum-file.c: use unsafe SHA-1 implementation when available Taylor Blau
2024-09-26 22:47   ` [PATCH v5 0/8] hash.h: support choosing a separate SHA-1 for non-cryptographic uses Elijah Newren
2024-09-27  0:44     ` Junio C Hamano
2024-09-27  3:57   ` Jeff King

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