From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from fout-b2-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-b2-smtp.messagingengine.com [202.12.124.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B7DA30E824 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 08:21:44 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=202.12.124.145 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1757492507; cv=none; b=rl2ca59HflRgELXSo5eskM/pAcEyqyfV5YemoVKPU3okVMvCOTyBO+SFdYvr3xnEEZE6Nn3z4xRNaODnUuEq1vBeegD/QqiKgcUBknc2IfgwBDaboHatD3Cu74tylpbtLtJap5WcGW2mrhyKH3H8zUPIIcn73CdJ+jnv25a3Yhw= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1757492507; c=relaxed/simple; bh=xiG4cA9gbf2NOsWLpdYVwrQbZMWwqPTjMoJb+gI6tc0=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=sAi/qV8a0b+3VjXfKjwG74rkPb+smHprX6qZCdmyjAbPi9alTUH9GiR44/62S+pUSiQOzE5DESB9nurThgyhDSx7DEWjsplKyVOnbKzuiRj59QrDOsvw5LjSyV/Zx3zj6TWchv7nhyZpslE9tFg3yhrv9fPIIQFHl3dcmkoCyfU= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=pks.im; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=pks.im; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pks.im header.i=@pks.im header.b=hTuh+Ki5; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b=hkTdj8E4; arc=none smtp.client-ip=202.12.124.145 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=pks.im Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=pks.im Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pks.im header.i=@pks.im header.b="hTuh+Ki5"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b="hkTdj8E4" Received: from phl-compute-03.internal (phl-compute-03.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailfout.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FCEC1D00238; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 04:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-01 ([10.202.2.162]) by phl-compute-03.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 10 Sep 2025 04:21:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pks.im; h=cc:cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date:date :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1757492503; x=1757578903; bh=piXN4QGIKptkpAP/EGQSW8PghGY2+YwtX0QSEyJaRyI=; b= hTuh+Ki5Rklj0F3Jjxl5gQlqLqlNSGyBIqVVEKfmRRI/NfLLMZAaAmT+fLjEqpaR rU+T8rUdI9ZwdqQoJGnVDrkKHjmpdIShN0OzAPyjIgloahEeX05/xr714CjdV6iB F0Reb4CaRKVTFqy6wLXk4pDqcqdYRawkSxzV6/TC8sHpmtzIr4Whj/lxDdDsmf0Q 0LzEWviHluQHatkJSeXNj6PFGdxpABeq7o2jBV1nct1GnJTgRYVvEqIU5iXyS4IX Uq4mILpnkh2AHZWzU6ClgJhyowsMpuVsZhHZ0s/3MTLVgMVdpWtI5E4MfwZPMbi8 yEUecbcAf09nCFSg6j51gw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t=1757492503; x= 1757578903; bh=piXN4QGIKptkpAP/EGQSW8PghGY2+YwtX0QSEyJaRyI=; b=h kTdj8E4gH2pe44rUW4dmdpznoKMOFl2z3Q0VpixFrKOcHsMUG7h4auOVIspn8R6J Oi+KHGWDR1EnwlH+MX+tUAz6eh60f06LV69EUsB20WIE0XzuRYoiO/wRIV3QuXmW UyloTFpRfKz54wvVe1inPASlrb4ELe2w9aDNXrpj3VeiLNFzHLvYze6HiislSoJW IO/VCvN5sOG5esAeGrXjNXEzYMNMmFznG67BqOGAoUzHlatCMt+ZaLf8t0vkW8sV usgZnXUzUiNZ21rAz7XMMoF7HNlxGoBXY4JywpKsLEk82sQ8zhYKDk7GFoBtr5da fW6O8qbTfe6jon4QkayeA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeffedrtdeggddvvdejlecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegr ihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjug hrpeffhffvvefukfhfgggtugfgjgesthekredttddtjeenucfhrhhomheprfgrthhrihgt khcuufhtvghinhhhrghrughtuceophhssehpkhhsrdhimheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnh epteehffdvtdeltedtteeuueekudegteetuddtgeeuueekteehfeeuvedviedttdevnecu ffhomhgrihhnpehkvghrnhgvlhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurf grrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehpshesphhkshdrihhmpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopedu hedpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtoheptggssedvheeisghithdrohhrgh dprhgtphhtthhopehmvgesthhtrgihlhhorhhrrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepphhhihhl lhhiphdrfihoohguseguuhhnvghlmhdrohhrghdruhhkpdhrtghpthhtohepshgrmhesgh gvnhhtohhordhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtohepghhithhsthgvrhesphhosghogidrtghomhdp rhgtphhtthhopehnvgifrhgvnhesghhmrghilhdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopegtohhnth grtghtsehhrggtkhhtihhvihhsrdhmvgdprhgtphhtthhopehpihgvrhhrvgdqvghmmhgr nhhuvghlrdhprghtrhihsegvmhgsvggtohhsmhdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopegvshgthh ifrghrthiisehgvghnthhoohdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i197146af:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 04:21:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id f24a4112 (TLSv1.3:TLS_CHACHA20_POLY1305_SHA256:256:NO); Wed, 10 Sep 2025 08:21:39 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2025 10:21:37 +0200 From: Patrick Steinhardt To: Elijah Newren Cc: phillip.wood@dunelm.org.uk, git@vger.kernel.org, "Haelwenn (lanodan) Monnier" , "brian m. carlson" , Ben Knoble , Christian Brabandt , Collin Funk , Eli Schwartz , Ezekiel Newren , Johannes Schindelin , Junio C Hamano , Pierre-Emmanuel Patry , Sam James , Taylor Blau Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC v2 0/7] Introduce Rust and announce that it will become mandatorty Message-ID: References: <20250904-b4-pks-rust-breaking-change-v1-0-3af1d25e0be9@pks.im> <20250905-b4-pks-rust-breaking-change-v2-0-6939cbf4a0b8@pks.im> <8a5394eb-bad4-42e0-82a8-fa73123e205a@gmail.com> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: On Mon, Sep 08, 2025 at 11:33:45PM -0700, Elijah Newren wrote: > On Sun, Sep 7, 2025 at 11:44 PM Patrick Steinhardt wrote: > > > > On Sat, Sep 06, 2025 at 09:31:02PM -0700, Elijah Newren wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2025 at 7:29 AM Patrick Steinhardt wrote: > [...] > > > > I have a plan layed out in the BreakingChanges document that mentions > > > > how I'm proposing to do the transition: > > > > > > > > 1. We introduce it with auto-detection for Meson and default-disabled > > > > for our Makefile in Git 2.52. > > > > > > > > 2. We enable Rust by default in case WITH_BREAKING_CHANGES is enabled > > > > in Git 2.53. > > > > > > > > 3. We always enable Rust by default in Git 2.54. > > > > > > I don't see how steps 1 & 2 help at all. We now know we want to make > > > Rust mandatory eventually, and should provide distributors and > > > platforms as much notice as possible so they are aware. But what > > > you've proposed is another libgit-rs or libgit-sys -- an optional > > > component that no one will know about unless they go looking for it. > > > I don't see how those two steps provide any incremental help to > > > anybody over what libgit-rs and libgit-sys have done. From my point > > > of view, Rust should be enabled by default in Git 2.52, with a simple > > > knob provided to let distributors/platforms/users turn it off and > > > build without it. > > > > It helps because it allows us to slowly build out the infrastructure. We > > don't yet need answers to every question that we currently have if we > > initially have the Rust infra default-disabled. > > One of the things I find very unfortunate about this series, is we > have a new contributor who was trying to send in patches, and instead > of providing feedback, suggesting alternatives, or asking if he'd do > it differently (which he actually said he was willing to do [1]), it > sends out a competing patch series to replace his instead. (And this > happened shortly after someone else interjected patches because of > interest in the first area he touched, forcing him to pivot once > already[2].) Further, despite him having solved how to get it running > on all platforms we run in CI with some big help from the > git-for-windows folks, this series discards all of that. It lends to > a feeling that he might be working on important and interesting > topics, but his changes aren't welcome and it's not worth providing > feedback for him to modify them to become so. That's almost certainly > not your intent, but that is the effect that sending a competing patch > series likely is going to have. > > [1] https://lore.kernel.org/git/CAH=ZcbBLAKaE733_2_2qbFTYCfwGq37RfF-Z3vaKL1ZR49msAA@mail.gmail.com/ > [2] https://lore.kernel.org/git/xmqqzfbvfxs6.fsf@gitster.g/ First to say: I'm not trying to say that his changes are not welcome here. What I'm trying to do with my patch series is to reconcile the different camps that we have in our project and to find a way forward so that Ezekiels work eventually becomes unblocked. And regarding the Windows changes: yes, I haven't picked those yet. I wanted to first get to a minimum working proposal so that we can focus the discussion more on the roadmap, which I think is the more important discussion compared to the technical discussion. As I mentioned, I do plan to implement Windows support as a next step once we have agreed on the initial baseline. Patrick