From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Linus Torvalds Subject: Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:26:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <2E6F57FC-3E78-4DD2-9B5B-CF75975D6A60@sb.org> <20080119084814.GH14871@dpotapov.dyndns.org> <20080120052735.GA18581@glandium.org> <20080120070018.GA11015@glandium.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Wincent Colaiuta , Dmitry Potapov , Kevin Ballard , Peter Karlsson , Mark Junker , Pedro Melo , "git@vger.kernel.org" To: Mike Hommey X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Sun Jan 20 08:27:39 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.176.167]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JGUag-0008Ti-UZ for gcvg-git-2@gmane.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:27:39 +0100 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1753812AbYATH1K (ORCPT ); Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:27:10 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1753917AbYATH1K (ORCPT ); Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:27:10 -0500 Received: from smtp2.linux-foundation.org ([207.189.120.14]:59733 "EHLO smtp2.linux-foundation.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752837AbYATH1I (ORCPT ); Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:27:08 -0500 Received: from imap1.linux-foundation.org (imap1.linux-foundation.org [207.189.120.55]) by smtp2.linux-foundation.org (8.13.5.20060308/8.13.5/Debian-3ubuntu1.1) with ESMTP id m0K7QOqk024903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:26:25 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by imap1.linux-foundation.org (8.13.5.20060308/8.13.5/Debian-3ubuntu1.1) with ESMTP id m0K7QN8n008545; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:26:24 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20080120070018.GA11015@glandium.org> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (LFD 882 2007-12-20) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.721 required=5 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0-osdl_revision__1.47__ X-MIMEDefang-Filter: lf$Revision: 1.188 $ X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.53 on 207.189.120.14 Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: On Sun, 20 Jan 2008, Mike Hommey wrote: > > That said, the locale doesn't necessarily express the language in which > the document is written. .. and quite commonly, there are multiple languages per document. The good news is that sorting is almost never relevant or done over general documents. You sort almost only well-behaved data, and quite often the exact order is less than important: and when it is, you have very specific rules (which probably seldom have anything what-so-ever to do with general unicode ;). > It's easy enough to read documents that are not > written in your native language on the net. That's already what we are both > doing right now. Fortunately, HTTP and HTML have ways to indicate the > language in which a document is written in, but that leaves out plain > mail, for instance. Well, Unicode already handles the "reading" part, just not the sorting. > That said, the "decomposed" version of UTF-8 has nice side effects on > OSX, with UTF-8 encoded RockRidge ISO-9660 volumes (with or without > Joliet ; OSX will use RockRidge by default when it's there), for instance. I think Unicode in general (and UTF-8 in particular) is a great thing. I do not argue against Unicode at all. It's what I use myself. The thing I argue against is that they force normalization (and then, as a secondary complaint, their insane choice of target format). Linux is generally UTF-8 too, and does all of this much better. No forced normalization, and it uses UTF-8 everywhere as the encoding model. Joliet and RR works beautifully. (I don't think RR is NFD, btw. It's the standard microsoft UTF-16 without normalization, afaik. I think you can happily generate a Rock Ridge disk that has two _different_ filenames that OS X cannot tell apart, but that both Linux and Windows can see peoperly) Linus