From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from fhigh-b8-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-b8-smtp.messagingengine.com [202.12.124.159]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F21682F8E81 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2026 03:47:05 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=202.12.124.159 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1788839228; cv=none; b=EUJenlif7xE9MUGy0HcaSPsAQ/PxWYoxVBclpcgi8uG65UzakqOdA5Llza3N3kNSrQCyKU5c0fA/3s7/eqVdQjtTQhNUYWGChn9QVR5PJr8mI+nsuiY22WozrivINpQ86Y/qog8q2Otuv26oZ/3XY6bXAgUQF/drxjCqKl0W6D8= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1788839228; c=relaxed/simple; bh=KcjBlLPVNSbtIC4XxwIHJEk/0hszm8EHIIyvngZPsvE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=LXMhlRN9rjCzogSPjomCAi7EI1QL3qicfHGZFTM+WezgAzg4sW/5FqZVSL9IhWnI8eNzUOr3P4P3+nf04pEgk2omco7xQCVFn1XludlpZ3Yxbp7CiFPbpcGYwVJeCNY/KeCovupKIG/0L8N97gWHg8FM7UPrZ9rfUR6loHFnAxo= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=pobox.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=pobox.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pobox.com header.i=@pobox.com header.b=hEdJGY2a; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b=AQimISYJ; arc=none smtp.client-ip=202.12.124.159 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=pobox.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=pobox.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pobox.com header.i=@pobox.com header.b="hEdJGY2a"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b="AQimISYJ" Received: from phl-compute-03.internal (phl-compute-03.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailfhigh.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 307847A0047; Mon, 7 Sep 2026 23:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-frontend-02 ([10.202.2.161]) by phl-compute-03.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 07 Sep 2026 23:47:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=cc :cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject :subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1788839223; x=1788925623; bh=XgR0uWeDsp bd6uDNZD5m0oVks1ROKi2Us6jjes1Gf5g=; b=hEdJGY2aefCrg0XhUuORnqKl74 kyp9E19TXg23BuH7NC14x1PGBpWechqhm2ktR8umKnzKtIA2SFnMuXostIckKBap wFLRdwcRjgHPf8eSEw5LRMYy9wrGzOq8GzbpjIWbmqvLQqDTXa2Ggdd1Zo56Uzc4 hfgQsMoIb9QvO9Rb0b7TkNjmFRIz+FiPQ9GUOSDWpXfn3oAMfmHLOGWhwZdUxbc/ 0yZhRgg325k4nU/pLeK3rwuxEwoEvPBt3TljHX32xqgz+1HbuEi4yNkGbZtSi4Sr pa/zstdvCxAwwkz0LuOe1YlanVFpAb+OQNxagKI3Lt99mohyi3X6NPq+s9ng== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t= 1788839223; x=1788925623; bh=XgR0uWeDspbd6uDNZD5m0oVks1ROKi2Us6j jes1Gf5g=; b=AQimISYJILx+ZECdqiAUroDt41AQoR5PTzy7UJlZDP/8NYQtet5 GBnRL8aEMyXoC7XX9lQZ9mgPyixFc2vBaIoJFADl1ncTYsL/7pl8Kpojsfyb/ygk e4nSnhD+tlMOsA2atswy+k+4uOiPWGuRNiD3c6FPpkyrQPcl2ZRqW1ffL76A2BQd UHWA1vBvAow08GOS7npZFGoG9KPPIUCj0mAwrKDD2gBevavmUELGpswc7WDqmv4H AkC44bAtbQg57yD4k/E8Dxp9QPBBjUfRt0PfOB1b9OJP1uCFNk88cKwkfZYOq0Ni KfYz8IEgKP4HZYViFBoNk2ZUiaIwxHy2XxA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: dmFkZTFgbuRmi9K8/f7MHUE1WD1KLa9CP7dzPPA+P2LfhSQFklayLDaJOcrfNIQwxIHco4 XMNiuRZ7iu15W7+mglESE/OekPrUh4zhriXc2zhXi/V9L0TraMQR84vmrkKaYNWgHGelU8 tEXGgehtTh83JV6+yczvAJLholN4cU7cSolrZwhSK7LXMT0bhTkFAPPARrGaa74VWF4WlN B47EOjIGPZv1JQiN3hOkKQCWG+dV01L7k6ASrEwXLRw55QvqhsF7W6Cxc/nbVFJeMl55yP KpezEsQMa+y8UrsM/Vv3lUdfXlVg3xxS0z8sP9oVcRWynlIG3FobqZngZH6ffnFH/Z2hJP rULDc9SmMRQE22l+Ql5Lod3dA8GX9SkbmYkPGuIqw4H0H6bnnfl+JI+1kofyahd5PmBQ/J kB2iQ5ZQ9c/jc5pHNq4xtqZAkI1T0IxdtIwN5e51DUh3hvyKnXeH4/6tVXTJSK+S2XFXcy 8k+U/EhRCvoVJKzXuzgbszyqzwezuWVaYDK3kC+CXiyeZqShQQyd2Nf+La5rM1Tc/PuRIi mj3MF1Ry0zF88kPSCdEQO/2Z1ZRWOqz3QlTR3e1nk5JTvxb9ErkH1/Oa/ShHXKxx9QZZ0B vSldhlnl1IvyyX2bhs97lbGp6iFWdulwfuDAQEGGnahWMCfFz0IbFK+NLgpA X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: if26b431b:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 7 Sep 2026 23:47:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Junio C Hamano To: Aleksei Sviridkin Cc: git@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] push: fix --force-if-includes when remote-tracking ref has no reflog In-Reply-To: <20260906165052.21780-1-f@lex.la> (Aleksei Sviridkin's message of "Sun, 6 Sep 2026 19:50:52 +0300") References: <20260903010547.85469-1-f@lex.la> <20260904124433.12840-1-f@lex.la> <20260906165052.21780-1-f@lex.la> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2026 20:47:01 -0700 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Aleksei Sviridkin writes: > Junio C Hamano writes: >> Which suggests to me that gc.reflogExpire or 90 days ago would be a >> lot more reasonable than year 1970 to use as a fallback cutoff date. > > Entries older than 90 days do survive. The reflog expires when gc or > "git reflog expire" runs, not on its own, so I could build a branch > whose matching reflog entry is 200 days old and still sitting there. It is only true for those who conciously disable the gc, isn't it? It all depends on how hard it is to recover from such a failure, and it may not even matter in practice what value we set, as it will become a non-issue once they pull from there or push into there even once. But in the context of discussing what the fallback default ought to be, I somehow sounds more like a poor excuse rather than a sensible argument. Doesn't it force a behaviour that would happen only to those people who deliberately choose to ignore cutoff and who are willing to spend cycles to go back to the beginning of history, to all users, including those who do not make such customization, no?