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From: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>
To: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
Cc: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>,
	 Martin von Zweigbergk <martinvonz@google.com>,
	 Git Mailing List <git@vger.kernel.org>,
	 Edwin Kempin <ekempin@google.com>,
	 Scott Chacon <scott@gitbutler.com>,
	remo@buenzli.dev,
	 "philipmetzger@bluewin.ch" <philipmetzger@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Semantics of change IDs (Re: Gerrit, GitButler, and Jujutsu projects collaborating on change-id commit footer)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2025 11:02:41 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <xmqqv7rdqkla.fsf@gitster.g> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Z/amMj/eg0RbXdkS@ubby> (Nico Williams's message of "Wed, 9 Apr 2025 11:54:10 -0500")

Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> writes:

> I don't find file rename heuristics to be "simple", and they're often

I think you need to re-read what Tytso wrote before reacting.  He
never said rename and copy heuristics is simple.  His statement was
that choosing *NOT* to record the "file A was renamed to B and C was
copied to D in this commit" in commit objects can be thought as a
choice to keep the system simple.

But the decision not to record renames and copies in commits is not
about simplicity but it is more about correctness.  People record
wrong renames and not all renaming changes are made with "git mv".

Through your GUI IDE, you may choose "Copy file" menu and make a
copy of an existing file F to file G, and edit file G extensively
and record the result in a commit.  No matter how heavy the edit
after copying is, your IDE would remember that G came originally by
copying from F so it should be able to record the fact that G was
copied from F in the resulting commit.

But recording that as a copy may be a *wrong* thing to do in the
first place.  The IDE cannot guess *why* you copied F to G in the
first place.  Perhaps it was because your project requires you to
reproduce boilerplate license notice in the comment at the beginning
of each and every file, and copying an existing file as a whole,
removing everything after that initial boilderplate comment, and
write everything else afresh was the easiest way for you to work.
If you inspect the resulting change brought in by the commit, with
intelligence, a human may say "G is a completely new file, even
though it shares the leading boilerplate comment with F and every
other file in the project".  Your IDE wouldn't say that.

We designed not to etch such wrong renames/copoies in stone by
recording them at the commit time.  Instead we compare the before
and after image to intuit the _intention_ of what the user wanted to
do _when_ you _ask_ (i.e. when you run "git diff" or "git log").
This has an additional benefit that the heuristics to find out about
renames and copies *can* be improved long after commits are made, so
a commit that used to be misidentified to have renamed a file (when
there is no such renaming) may later say that a file is removed and
a new file is made independently with newer version of Git.

  reply	other threads:[~2025-04-09 18:02 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 118+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-04-02 18:48 Gerrit, GitButler, and Jujutsu projects collaborating on change-id commit footer Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-04-02 19:34 ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-02 19:49   ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2025-04-02 19:45 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2025-04-02 19:52 ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-04-03  9:09 ` Patrick Steinhardt
2025-04-03 10:38   ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-03 11:06     ` Patrick Steinhardt
2025-04-03 15:56   ` Elijah Newren
2025-04-03 16:25     ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-03 16:38       ` Elijah Newren
2025-04-03 21:46         ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-04-04  9:41     ` Patrick Steinhardt
2025-04-03 15:39 ` Elijah Newren
2025-04-03 16:40   ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-03 22:11     ` Kane York
2025-04-04  2:28     ` Elijah Newren
2025-04-04  2:40       ` Elijah Newren
2025-04-04  3:47         ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-04-04  4:03           ` Nico Williams
2025-04-04  4:59           ` Elijah Newren
2025-04-04  5:21             ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-04-04  9:29               ` Patrick Steinhardt
2025-04-03 17:48   ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-04-03 20:31     ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-05  2:09       ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-04-03 18:10   ` Nico Williams
2025-04-03 21:45     ` Remo Senekowitsch
     [not found]       ` <Z+8GoNrdaJlmNpGm@ubby>
2025-04-04  0:05         ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-04  3:52           ` Nico Williams
2025-04-04  7:41             ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-04 16:08               ` Nico Williams
2025-04-03 22:05     ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-04-03 22:13       ` Nico Williams
2025-04-03 22:47         ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-04-04  2:06           ` Elijah Newren
2025-04-04  3:11           ` Nico Williams
2025-04-04  4:08             ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-04-04  4:23               ` Nico Williams
2025-04-04  9:34                 ` Patrick Steinhardt
2025-04-04 16:04                   ` Nico Williams
2025-04-07  8:00                     ` Patrick Steinhardt
2025-04-07 20:59 ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-07 21:36   ` Nico Williams
2025-04-08 12:55     ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-04-08 15:53       ` Nico Williams
2025-04-09 12:19         ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-04-09 12:56           ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-09 19:13             ` Nico Williams
2025-04-10  8:29               ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-10 21:40                 ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-04-09 16:54           ` Semantics of change IDs (Re: Gerrit, GitButler, and Jujutsu projects collaborating on change-id commit footer) Nico Williams
2025-04-09 18:02             ` Junio C Hamano [this message]
2025-04-09 18:35               ` Nico Williams
2025-04-09 19:14                 ` Eric Sunshine
2025-04-09 19:31                   ` Nico Williams
2025-04-10 13:44                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-04-10 16:18                   ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-11 15:48                     ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-04-11 16:38                       ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2025-04-11 17:44                       ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-12 23:13                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-04-14 15:13                           ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-15 22:30                             ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-16  0:09                               ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-16  0:21                               ` Jacob Keller
2025-04-15 21:38                           ` Jacob Keller
2025-04-14 19:54             ` D. Ben Knoble
2025-04-14 21:34               ` Nico Williams
2025-04-15 21:44               ` Jacob Keller
2025-04-16 11:36               ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-22 20:17                 ` D. Ben Knoble
2025-04-22 22:24                   ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-22 22:42                     ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-22 22:51                       ` Nico Williams
2025-04-22 23:47                         ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-23  0:32                           ` Nico Williams
2025-04-23  1:15                             ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-23  4:45                               ` Nico Williams
2025-04-22 23:49                         ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-23  1:02                           ` Nico Williams
2025-04-23  4:47                             ` Nico Williams
2025-04-22 23:21                       ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-23  5:07                       ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-04-23 15:51                         ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-23 16:19                           ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-06-06 13:04                             ` Toon Claes
     [not found]                   ` <aAgWytQNqtLzg2TU@ubby>
2025-04-23  0:25                     ` Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-23  0:45                       ` Nico Williams
2025-04-23 12:58                         ` How GitLab does/doesn't need change IDs (was Re: Semantics of change IDs) Toon Claes
2025-04-23 18:59                           ` Nico Williams
2025-05-10 19:32                     ` Semantics of change IDs (Re: Gerrit, GitButler, and Jujutsu projects collaborating on change-id commit footer) D. Ben Knoble
2025-05-10 19:46                       ` D. Ben Knoble
2025-05-10 20:31                         ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-05-12 17:03                           ` Junio C Hamano
2025-05-12 17:19                             ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-05-14 14:38                               ` Junio C Hamano
2025-05-15 10:31                                 ` Oswald Buddenhagen
2025-05-15 16:32                                   ` Jacob Keller
2025-05-15 19:59                                     ` Junio C Hamano
2025-05-15 20:10                                       ` Nico Williams
     [not found]                           ` <aCJi+4q6DZhnfdy+@ubby>
2025-05-12 21:43                             ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-05-12 22:04                               ` brian m. carlson
2025-06-06 12:28                                 ` Toon Claes
2025-06-06 15:44                                   ` Junio C Hamano
2025-05-13 21:22                               ` D. Ben Knoble
2025-04-07 22:51   ` Gerrit, GitButler, and Jujutsu projects collaborating on change-id commit footer Remo Senekowitsch
2025-04-08  0:10   ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-08  5:35     ` Martin von Zweigbergk
2025-04-08 14:27       ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-08 15:58         ` Phillip Wood
2025-04-08 16:27           ` Nico Williams
2025-04-12 21:32           ` Junio C Hamano
2025-04-16  0:24         ` Jacob Keller
2025-05-14 15:08         ` Kristoffer Haugsbakk
2025-04-08 14:27       ` Junio C Hamano
2025-08-19 14:04 ` Askar Safin
2025-08-19 16:44   ` Ben Knoble

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