From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.43) id 1P0hou-0008CS-L1 for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:34:40 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=60076 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P0hos-0008BI-8n for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:34:39 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P0hoq-0003b5-Bw for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:34:38 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.214.41]:52186) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P0hoq-0003az-2R for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:34:36 -0400 Received: by bwz10 with SMTP id 10so157704bwz.0 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 14:34:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type; bh=C8PzQq8a8Y+RZFyDWB7IYTE868cQ63kIjAYXG19bcdE=; b=CEo1DurffrzBgIhGlHNX4rZwcJeoKIgkOGmNMPD2ObboLb8p2i8b8g8xu/9BjQ7GZC HCSaQIYjiQzHsDQFUihsGFFzsaZoFD9Zr46hNgU4jCPwg3Yr/qDS0Z9sD0zs3U+awg8C U4hmBBhpTdFpfiIQTu4UJMSVZCd1c47QY3F74= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type; b=xETSKKvEJfXP8xj3l3QNK5ZrBZ8K926EMglciOfijzZHBaBp2E9aQPngrJdpyK6UHb IyJVKpn8ObpMarJkDNWt39RdqMeeSEVG1Nz7XUqjSgJjGLFptG8ZOoaA5WGh6TqQDEwM Fi6zq0ZOiqs/buYGcrqIKqbCWdA+baMYLkbgs= Received: by 10.204.65.129 with SMTP id j1mr434781bki.156.1285709674666; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 14:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from debian.bg45.phnet (gprs49.swisscom-mobile.ch [193.247.250.49]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s34sm6038299bkk.13.2010.09.28.14.34.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 28 Sep 2010 14:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4CA25F4E.1050800@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:34:06 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?VmxhZGltaXIgJ8+GLWNvZGVyL3BoY29kZXInIFNlcmJpbmVua28=?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100805 Icedove/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: grub-devel@gnu.org References: <20100924002753.GE8579@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <197110.28172.qm@web113213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20100928080423.GN21862@riva.ucam.org> <4CA23C71.9040601@gmail.com> <20100928191538.GU8579@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CA2455D.2070105@gmail.com> <20100928200700.GV8579@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CA256F7.5040704@gmail.com> <20100928211536.GW8579@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> In-Reply-To: <20100928211536.GW8579@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig9B59D6414F9218C68D0B896F" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) Subject: Re: Guidance on conflicts between GNU GRUB and proprietary software X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: The development of GNU GRUB List-Id: The development of GNU GRUB List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:34:39 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig9B59D6414F9218C68D0B896F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 09/28/2010 11:15 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 10:58:31PM +0200, Vladimir '=CF=86-coder/phcode= r' Serbinenko wrote: > =20 >> On 09/28/2010 10:07 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> =20 >>> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 09:43:25PM +0200, Vladimir '=CF=86-coder/phco= der' Serbinenko wrote: >>> =20 >>> =20 >>>> GPT has new types. >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>> GPT has an msdos partition type for itself for use in hybrid setups. >>> I know GPT partition tables have new types, but GPT itself has a type= >>> reserved in the old dos partition table. >>> =20 >>> =20 >> You probably mean the 0xee type. But it's used only to mark the whole >> space as used. In our case it's a partition which is identified to hav= e >> all the data deleted. Let's just take a famous collision between Solar= is >> and Linux swap. I doubt that any of them willingly choose the type in >> order to collide with other. If Linux relied solely on the partition >> type to identify its swap it would be a disaster for dual-boot system.= >> =20 > =20 > Certainly true. Now there clearly are unused types. Rather "not widely known to be used". > On the other > hand given the lack of partition entries in the first place, needing a > partition isn't very convinient at all. =20 I never said "replace current method with another one" but "add another one as an option" > It might be a nice option to > support though. Of course I doubt anything prevents the user of a > partition for grub already, given you could use an MBR that just goes > to the active partition (ie: standard DOS/Windows behaviour), and then > have grub be on that active partition, whatever the type may be. > > =20 You confuse /boot and embedding. >> Destroying the data which is on its rightful place is bad independentl= y >> what you use the place for, how important your usage is or how >> "unimportant" you judge the current occupant. >> =20 > Well grub should only install where someone tells it to. > > =20 You confuse again. Where boot code goes is specificied on command line. Embedding zone is chosed in function of partition map. See "Re: [grub-setup] New procedure to choose the embedding area" on 09/15/2010 10:11 PM +0200 >> I believe it's possible to have something something much more reliable= =2E >> We could have a tool grub-mkembed (analog of mkswap) which would mark >> the partition as available for GRUB embedding (perhaps in addition of >> checking type). This signature must be written in a way to be >> overwritten when formatted in known filesystems >> =20 > Not sure you can pick a place and be certain all filesystems will > overwrite it on format. You can try, but it won't always work. > > =20 We can put multiple signatures. >>>> GRUB has a design principle of being cross-platform installable. >>>> Moreover the same disk can contain multiple grub installation. I >>>> personally regularly move the disk between yeeloong and amd64 laptop= , >>>> well it has only one GRUB since on yeeloong my GRUB is in flash but = it >>>> could easily have one on disk too. >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>> If two architectures expect sector 0 to contain boot code, then that >>> can't work. I certainly would not consider that a worthy design goal= >>> compared to lots of other things. >>> >>> =20 >>> =20 >> Some architestures are incompatible because of such reasons but many >> others don't conflict in such ways. >> When you abandon a design goal or give an exception you first have to >> make sure that there is no way to reconcile the given features. >> =20 > Nice to support if possible, although given how short on partitions you= > are already with msdos partitions is really seems futile. > > =20 Logical partitions are fine for most platforms. >> Just one example: I'm ready to give an exception to multiterm design i= n >> order to get the features required for ubuntu CDs but first I discusse= d >> in order to find compromise which would result in less mess on codepat= h >> intersections and it looks like there is actually one. >> In this case taking PReP partition type would be unfounded. >> =20 > Well I think using a partition at all in the case of the msdos partitio= n > table is a huge inconvinience to people, and I suspect many won't be > able to. > > it has become annoyingly common to see: > > System restore partition > Windows System partition > Windows partition > > That leaves one primary partition on a typical system these days. So t= o > make more than one partition, that one has to be extended. Now where > can grub go? > > =20 Logical partition for embedding is fine too. > If the system maker had been nice, they would have used GPT instead and= > those 3 partitions would not have been a problem. But of course window= s > doesn't know how to boot from GPT on a normal BIOS based system (unlike= > most other OSs that have no such problem). > =20 see "gptsync" > If people are dual booting, using the track 0 area may be a bad thing. > Unfortunately people that a dual booting are most likely to have partit= ion > limitations making it the only option that works. > > =20 s,people dualbooting, people having crapware + some other cases. --=20 Regards Vladimir '=CF=86-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko --------------enig9B59D6414F9218C68D0B896F Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iF4EAREKAAYFAkyiX04ACgkQNak7dOguQgmjgQD/Z3nksj8WQKiCnPvY8vQZDLM9 rvm2WtWcW58gw5PO5dgBAJMS+MSmCYiwEBsFqvPG2szZ2qpc3bQgLfvKy0vL/1B3 =+OLs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig9B59D6414F9218C68D0B896F--