From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=invisiblethingslab.com header.i=@invisiblethingslab.com header.b="1gVSnXlg"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b="mmSxXWzt" Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1DF19F for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2023 11:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC8A65C0207; Tue, 12 Dec 2023 14:05:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 12 Dec 2023 14:05:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= invisiblethingslab.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1702407931; x=1702494331; bh=biUxq4soyIMPKRgYXQmG88kn4vdDYNuow5hDcbCwc4w=; b= 1gVSnXlg/7Vm1ggGcZBfNj9pau5O8PUW1XwnRTrNnQwVJ0fsochirQ8B26r6gT1r 4BhYuQnrGuIjyQErzdFCuTeucJE6weyBShSej+GxVQm0GiqJ5he24ILi2jOO4s7Q CTCPxFeTX/7dxNpaVz8f3zYYYY1AMm5SkdLfXySpHVdQfSdlm32717eXypO6D05v eJ7hMhZiuUKdnVNQl6h68QCr22/YDGBbqpgqn1WsYgAk/r4IbvXRym+CGEf3WJFu B4wLsepIdIiZQc2xWqWIDd49bOOTg5s/VpiX7u0zmrsM4DE3b4u1Fi/wmQdKbBzo fe/TKPt+GeqnCQYUD9Hq+w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; t=1702407931; x=1702494331; bh=biUxq4soyIMPKRgYXQmG88kn4vdD YNuow5hDcbCwc4w=; b=mmSxXWztcDeDnivbKMA3wYlD7AGQKjiCgggP2kCgeWqc RF9UxTVmixryDWq8KxRpyCTUddHbg17yfLcEjQagKE3uf1Ogft6IXpGKS8GXf+vH wLhDj6+ZKyO17Ic8N8uZ4QffaCJigKx+7TzgQojVfVaBJmU+zXFU1hKsiUctCMLX Np361UWfArFhVu2rS7450l6U2YJGXzSqSMv30BvOs2C0cyq+iS4FzhRvtM12bRaC ywte/MDT/CBUJ64ZD7iz/HIWzA/kfSFvlXe0X94oNfs2LFUpp1d+WstM7esYeat1 6WOGys3JYHomIkcL3pP/thshrXn67eVAd0bIdDFPJg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrudelgedguddukecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpeffhffvvefukfhfgggtuggjsehgtderredttddvnecuhfhrohhmpeffvghm ihcuofgrrhhivgcuqfgsvghnohhurhcuoeguvghmihesihhnvhhishhisghlvghthhhinh hgshhlrggsrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeduieelfeeutedvleehueetffej geejgeffkeelveeuleeukeejjeduffetjeekteenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtne curfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeguvghmihesihhnvhhishhisghlvghthhhinhhg shhlrggsrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: iac594737:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 12 Dec 2023 14:05:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 14:05:27 -0500 From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Lennart Poettering , Eric Curtin Cc: Yariv Rachmani , initramfs@vger.kernel.org, systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, Stephen Smoogen , Douglas Landgraf Subject: Re: [RFC] initoverlayfs - a scalable initial filesystem Message-ID: References: Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: initramfs@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EtGVXVjwVp7uTx9g" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: --EtGVXVjwVp7uTx9g Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 14:05:27 -0500 From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Lennart Poettering , Eric Curtin Cc: Yariv Rachmani , initramfs@vger.kernel.org, systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, Stephen Smoogen , Douglas Landgraf Subject: Re: [RFC] initoverlayfs - a scalable initial filesystem On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 06:40:32PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mo, 11.12.23 12:48, Eric Curtin (ecurtin@redhat.com) wrote: >=20 > > Although the nice thing about a storage-init like approach is there's > > basically zero copies up front. What storage-init is trying to be, is > > a tool to just call systemd storage things, without also inheriting > > all the systemd stack. >=20 > Just to make this clear: using things like systemd-cryptsetup outside > of the systemd stack is not going to work once you leave trivial > setups. i.e. the TPM hookup involves multiple services these days, and > it's not going to get any simpler. i.e. systemd-tpm2-setup, > systemd-pcrextend, systemd-pcrlock and so on. I am sorry, but doing > reasonable disk encryption with TPM involved means you either buy into > the whole systemd offer (i.e. with the service manager) or you have to > rewrite your own systemd. >=20 > But maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying here. I think a key factor here is that the initial suggestion was for automotive use cases. One can have a vastly simpler system if one is willing to deliver hardware-specific images, rather than trying to have a single image that supports many different hardware models. Automotive and other embedded systemd understandably do not want to pay for complexity that they do not need, and which is present to support features (such as supporting arbitrary hardware) they will never use. --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) Invisible Things Lab --EtGVXVjwVp7uTx9g Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEdodNnxM2uiJZBxxxsoi1X/+cIsEFAmV4rvkACgkQsoi1X/+c IsHu+xAAz5JEvAuO7euOnbliWXrYhG+wbLlGDUE4pB5lPwt4vhjAZ0EGSVz2MKgx G3P3PY+AtviY6gCf8/a+R4b1Y87YB5WK8yHKrwMgWGdtoaZWoYuSRAChiJ4L8zJl /ZEOtDMowOqoI8RwLx7Dgznf0DptY1px5qqfFxMFcEW7bQkJTDSYJD62bte1ijYZ R4r3gJUa63eQR0HD8GTdjkcpzrqkS6fXR4CNd5HoVE3xW6kw411wHRmays1RHfyX Kl4M0esKRLYQ8S0zHhFfTlm/eUr54/ORGS2LvLjV93b84ErWvR0FK8DKZw2wUSZS fX+63zqFQ9DdTSuGlWm09caZ9GPkFuZg+kVd/4F+hYYaxMaVijo/A1HM2zidV+I4 OWJI4HJEpo7x0D4ORGVjNFuACwAvtEVjrECMV23LRd2C5JICPsDd/QzhN3vLQwuS JqlNoQlEAiMZCLaNLa7uY2fEWgeNT9vhuPS4y5x9uAf/WXVuyNv07myA6vbrh2mp mdtOkYz7pkDvsdp6L+7vCRW3QHlqfqmAZOIt5SCGWHulqhaMFQfmiF/keV/qg2YL rrZOrMa2qk8NmjRWUGCqVTicVHkKszAFAQqOWdzksQwdWcr2ZxsO59l92wMWlaju tzqsKNsZnrjW4kXavPc76nn+V7RTnK5iMKlGEIbXiKlwHDxB4I8= =5+rD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EtGVXVjwVp7uTx9g--