From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE124C54791 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:36:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F23EA10EF1D; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:36:53 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: gabe.freedesktop.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=haloniitty.fi header.i=@haloniitty.fi header.b="PMvig87N"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: from whm50.louhi.net (whm50.louhi.net [77.240.19.51]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFBA310EF1D; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:36:50 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=haloniitty.fi; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:References: In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=UvlGb+NMdGvOIAwdpz/kpxf4ZbYXllif2d7IIgYDSOE=; b=PMvig87Nh/Kgu7Y2DEO2Orr0tK 7mfPJH2vG8DztovphbITGF6FbN4jLawkR2/HS38qc1q4UlXsROnGeXX+3ii7Xjw5/byXyNQHJ7Lss fNzuHoIkC6DfRDujS6hNXE3k+C0sMXW+RgBI87Snl6eBWZFG6DB7D49adtp1VcB5SyUW1gwsO3fa8 FPfIWG+Kjy/K5CQPfE05LP5dl7a3tNeawRD13nrLNCX/GGIp5bMNAvF90QDdT6RBrM3N7c+PqqFul E5Don6TWiRNFZPnOaoFPdIcdGZ9sp8Q6Yt1kum18VRXbphrihWPolqk/uGPNai3GSI0JSBGNsnIH1 ylee8L9Q==; Received: from [194.136.85.206] (port=60648 helo=eldfell) by whm50.louhi.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rkL2W-0003P7-2I; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:36:48 +0200 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:36:38 +0200 From: Pekka Paalanen To: "Garg, Nemesa" Cc: Simon Ser , "intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org" , "dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org" , "G M, Adarsh" Subject: Re: [RFC 0/5] Introduce drm sharpening property Message-ID: <20240313113638.3ff61e4f@eldfell> In-Reply-To: <20240312162600.7358e146@eldfell> References: <20240214112457.3734871-1-nemesa.garg@intel.com> <8Ma-GlU3bFAuSPpFhGbYYuXQ8OeeDjMK9WiWO6KP-4pPO41fLnLrgABkRfhjHY6XlIh5u67vcEbD8ejDq7-zo5BXf-too0Pt7oTDhWCOPlU=@emersion.fr> <20240216103620.33deabb1@eldfell> <20240312162600.7358e146@eldfell> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.1.1 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/iz191xy/11DCJ3UKsItxeZC"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - whm50.louhi.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.freedesktop.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - haloniitty.fi X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: whm50.louhi.net: authenticated_id: pekka.paalanen@haloniitty.fi X-Authenticated-Sender: whm50.louhi.net: pekka.paalanen@haloniitty.fi X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Intel graphics driver community testing & development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: intel-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "Intel-gfx" --Sig_/iz191xy/11DCJ3UKsItxeZC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 16:26:00 +0200 Pekka Paalanen wrote: > On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 08:30:34 +0000 > "Garg, Nemesa" wrote: >=20 > > This KMS property is not implementing any formula =20 >=20 > Sure it is. Maybe Intel just does not want to tell what the algorithm > is, or maybe it's even patented. >=20 > > and the values > > that are being used are based on empirical analysis and certain > > experiments done on the hardware. These values are fixed and is not > > expected to change and this can change from vendor to vendor. The > > client can choose any sharpness value on the scale and on the basis > > of it the sharpness will be set. The sharpness effect can be changed > > from content to content and from display to display so user needs to > > adjust the optimum intensity value so as to get good experience on > > the screen. > > =20 >=20 > IOW, it's an opaque box operation, and there is no way to reproduce its > results without the specific Intel hardware. Definitely no way to > reproduce its results in free open source software alone. >=20 > Such opaque box operations can only occur after KMS blending, at the > CRTC or later stage. They cannot appear before blending, not in the new > KMS color pipeline design at least. The reason is that the modern way > to use KMS planes is opportunistic composition off-loading. > Opportunistic means that userspace decides from time to time whether it > composes the final picture using KMS or some other rendering method > (usually GPU and shaders). Since userspace will arbitrarily switch > between KMS and render composition, both must result in the exact same > image, or end users will observe unwanted flicker. >=20 > Such opaque box operations are fine after blending, because there they > can be configured once and remain on forever. No switching, no flicker. If you want to see how sharpness property would apply in Wayland design, it would be in step 5 "Adjust (settings UI)" of https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pq/color-and-hdr/-/blob/main/doc/color-manag= ement-model.md#compositor-color-management-model To relate that diagram to KMS color processing, you can identify step 3 "Compose" as the KMS blending step. Everything before step 3 happens in KMS plane color processing, and steps 4-5 happen in KMS CRTC color processing. Sharpening would essentially be a "compositor color effect", it just happens to be implementable only by specific Intel hardware. If a color effect is dynamic or content-dependant, it will preclude colorimetric monitor calibration. Thanks, pq > Where does "sharpeness" operation occur in the Intel color processing > chain? Is it before or after blending? >=20 > What kind of transfer characteristics does it expect from the image, > and can those be realized with KMS CRTC properties if KMS is configured > such that the blending happens using some other characteristics (e.g. > blending in optical space)? >=20 > What about SDR vs. HDR imagery? >=20 >=20 > Thanks, > pq >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: dri-devel On Behalf O= f Simon > > > Ser > > > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 7:46 PM > > > To: Garg, Nemesa > > > Cc: Pekka Paalanen ; intel- > > > gfx@lists.freedesktop.org; dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org; G M, Adar= sh > > > > > > Subject: RE: [RFC 0/5] Introduce drm sharpening property > > >=20 > > > On Monday, March 4th, 2024 at 15:04, Garg, Nemesa > > > wrote: > > > =20 > > > > This is generic as sharpness effect is applied post blending. > > > > Depending on the color gamut, pixel format and other inputs the ima= ge > > > > gets blended and once we get blended output it can be sharpened bas= ed > > > > on strength value provided by the user. =20 > > >=20 > > > It would really help if you could provide the exact mathematical form= ula applied > > > by this KMS property. =20 >=20 --Sig_/iz191xy/11DCJ3UKsItxeZC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEJQjwWQChkWOYOIONI1/ltBGqqqcFAmXxc6YACgkQI1/ltBGq qqelLg/8D/kONC9wtENBWv8db4ytLVukUiy2yym55xqzgIt06RX1JbHEgUy6kKei jErE//PBziEojOypmIxEsrSz07D1gfZmZli4BZPOw5p2Bhp4RgPEnwmd8grzV5vt BXSrFWCppFWUJIKBQl/8z5Xjso1hZS8w14OdtbkDPUh7TDHtF9vo/bUBBWt6fg7c XFAronLgLBwaRaVnyl7+a0hRaSg5ZRbIpviQVv3dNK3XTNtFea1CnKJOv/4sH6IT S63a0lOmFgygpnW/TE/FE73/1gyR8QbWr7GzeXwXnfbVLMDRDOQvnVh6TezMAe5W y9FR002hBml7A1RlFvIT5JFPppakD6V0MVJddIU6R2Wnz2WnCj1gtfoSefJPFzpU MbPwQP+OkHDOOFcByTGpCSKmIZMZ0gy4+ti0yzlzwm2MZ2eCqM0nEDoVpM0RkMWB kAt2nleuf7062b/DX6itOOMg0rF1Lfn+eQlpNysuPB0jKcrEhQQIE4vygrOQjXgx E4J456A7a07dUBSX11XvD37+Z6Z+FTjWfLjH5nm8tPmVdiTIIAXvXmbhpJo4ptSF ohKwL0CCi7uOHxsECTOtm2ih1k6eqZUHIwNYLvXXwPfx/lPHEI/B93IYuHYnXtuu zTyMHL8m94xBHtXERv+sD3z+gs4QCap9DuGpExjfoz119ZMhCCA= =Y8VD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/iz191xy/11DCJ3UKsItxeZC--