Re: your mail

[Lorenzo Stoakes <lorenzo.stoakes@oracle.com>]

+cc Liam as he's also had some fun with PAT in the past.

On Wed, Aug 20, 2025 at 05:23:07PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote:
> CCing Lorenzo
>
> On 20.08.25 16:33, Christian König wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > sorry for CCing so many people, but that rabbit hole turned out to be
> > deeper than originally thought.
> >
> > TTM always had problems with UC/WC mappings on 32bit systems and drivers
> > often had to revert to hacks like using GFP_DMA32 to get things working
> > while having no rational explanation why that helped (see the TTM AGP,
> > radeon and nouveau driver code for that).
> >
> > It turned out that the PAT implementation we use on x86 not only enforces
> > the same caching attributes for pages in the linear kernel mapping, but
> > also for highmem pages through a separate R/B tree.

Obviously this aspect is on the PAT guys.

PAT has caused some concerns for us in mm before, cf. David's series at [0].

[0]:https://lore.kernel.org/linux-mm/20250512123424.637989-1-david@redhat.com/

> >
> > That was unexpected and TTM never updated that R/B tree for highmem pages,
> > so the function pgprot_set_cachemode() just overwrote the caching
> > attributes drivers passed in to vmf_insert_pfn_prot() and that essentially
> > caused all kind of random trouble.
> >
> > An R/B tree is potentially not a good data structure to hold thousands if
> > not millions of different attributes for each page, so updating that is
> > probably not the way to solve this issue.
> >
> > Thomas pointed out that the i915 driver is using apply_page_range()
> > instead of vmf_insert_pfn_prot() to circumvent the PAT implementation and
> > just fill in the page tables with what the driver things is the right
> > caching attribute.
>
> I assume you mean apply_to_page_range() -- same issue in patch subjects.
>
> Oh this sounds horrible. Why oh why do we have these hacks in core-mm and
> have drivers abuse them :(

Yeah this is not intended behaviour and I actually think we should not permit
this at all. In fact I think we should un-export this.

I think the hold up with it is xen, as the only other users are arch code.

Probably we need to find a new interface just for xen and provide that just for
them...

>
> Honestly, apply_to_pte_range() is just the entry in doing all kinds of weird
> crap to page tables because "you know better".

Yes. This is just not permitted for general driver usage and is an abuse of the
mm API really. Esp. when the underlying issue is not to do with core mm...

>
> All the sanity checks from vmf_insert_pfn(), gone.
>
> Can we please fix the underlying issue properly?

Yes, PLEASE.

>
> --
> Cheers
>
> David / dhildenb
>

I will add this xen/apply_to_page_range() thing to my TODOs, which atm
would invovle changing these drivers to use vmf_insert_pfn_prot() instead.

So ideally we'll have addressed the underlying issue before I get to this,
because this really really shouldn't be something we allow drivers to use
generally.

Cheers, Lorenzo