From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE79C433E2 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 14:07:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mother.openwall.net (mother.openwall.net [195.42.179.200]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 32D352068F for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 14:07:15 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="UxyMcT9U" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 32D352068F Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=kernel.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=kernel-hardening-return-19197-kernel-hardening=archiver.kernel.org@lists.openwall.com Received: (qmail 13783 invoked by uid 550); 1 Jul 2020 14:07:07 -0000 Mailing-List: contact kernel-hardening-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Received: (qmail 13748 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2020 14:07:06 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=default; t=1593612414; bh=TCIa8yhQ4iVhyUzcOXhAGrgk0DX3phE5GMmWvDF0SV4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Reply-To:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=UxyMcT9UctCCaIS9T64uLEnTUJueiYzWguCdSzkmsvRznDtfDw6K50TsBnuGfQnvh fQWiMxyaoXsrygojoET/UKQpDuk/FJSnsGcZVVEcTHjQXT2Jk4t3WrtQh8qORfE1xt yJZwMhG0v2NygHMrb6PxDvizyK/jpOr1G9oTXgN4= Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 07:06:54 -0700 From: "Paul E. McKenney" To: Peter Zijlstra Cc: Marco Elver , Nick Desaulniers , Sami Tolvanen , Masahiro Yamada , Will Deacon , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Kees Cook , clang-built-linux , Kernel Hardening , linux-arch , Linux ARM , Linux Kbuild mailing list , LKML , linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/22] add support for Clang LTO Message-ID: <20200701140654.GL9247@paulmck-ThinkPad-P72> References: <20200624211540.GS4817@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20200625080313.GY4817@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20200625082433.GC117543@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20200625085745.GD117543@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20200630191931.GA884155@elver.google.com> <20200630201243.GD4817@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20200630203016.GI9247@paulmck-ThinkPad-P72> <20200701114027.GO4800@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200701114027.GO4800@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 01:40:27PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 11:41:17AM +0200, Marco Elver wrote: > > On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 22:30, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 10:12:43PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 09:19:31PM +0200, Marco Elver wrote: > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > > > How hard would it be to creates something that analyzes a build and > > > > looks for all 'dependent load -> control dependency' transformations > > > > headed by a volatile (and/or from asm) load and issues a warning for > > > > them? > > > > I was thinking about this, but in the context of the "auto-promote to > > acquire" which you didn't like. Issuing a warning should certainly be > > simpler. > > > > I think there is no one place where we know these transformations > > happen, but rather, need to analyze the IR before transformations, > > take note of all the dependent loads headed by volatile+asm, and then > > run an analysis after optimizations checking the dependencies are > > still there. > > Urgh, that sounds nasty. The thing is, as I've hinted at in my other > reply, I would really like a compiler switch to disable this > optimization entirely -- knowing how relevant the trnaformation is, is > simply a first step towards that. > > In order to control the tranformation, you have to actually know where > in the optimization passes it happens. > > Also, if (big if in my book) we find the optimization is actually > beneficial, we can invert the warning when using the switch and warn > about lost optimization possibilities and manually re-write the code to > use control deps. There are lots of optimization passes and any of them might decide to destroy dependencies. :-( > > > > This would give us an indication of how valuable this transformation is > > > > for the kernel. I'm hoping/expecting it's vanishingly rare, but what do > > > > I know. > > > > > > This could be quite useful! > > > > We might then even be able to say, "if you get this warning, turn on > > CONFIG_ACQUIRE_READ_DEPENDENCIES" (or however the option will be > > named). > > I was going to suggest: if this happens, employ -fno-wreck-dependencies > :-) The current state in the C++ committee is that marking variables carrying dependencies is the way forward. This is of course not what the Linux kernel community does, but it should not be hard to have a -fall-variables-dependent or some such that causes all variables to be treated as if they were marked. Though I was hoping for only pointers. Are they -sure- that they -absolutely- need to carry dependencies through integers??? Anyway, the next step is to provide this functionality in one of the major compilers. Akshat Garg started this in GCC as a GSoC project by duplicating "volatile" functionality with a _Dependent_ptr keyword. Next steps would include removing "volatile" functionality not required for dependencies. Here is a random posting, which if I remember correctly raised some doubts as to whether "volatile" was really carried through everywhere that it needs to for things like LTO: https://gcc.gnu.org/legacy-ml/gcc/2019-07/msg00139.html What happened to this effort? Akshat graduated and got an unrelated job, you know, the usual. ;-) Thanx, Paul