Some suggestions and questions

Some suggestions and questions

[Dan Rue]

I've received some (internal from Linaro) questions and suggestions
recently, and I wanted to relay them here for consideration.

Can we have a changelog, that would show changes to software, hardware,
and infrastructure.

Can the kernelCI FAQ provide a link to the mailing list archive?

Can we make the meeting minutes doc public?

In the interest of transparency, can we disclose how emails sent to
info@kernelci.org are handled?

Lastly, groups.io supports hashtags. If we added something like #minutes
to the 'meeting minutes' email subjects, they'd show up under
https://groups.io/g/kernelci/hashtags.

Thanks!
Dan

Re: [kernelci] Some suggestions and questions

[Mark Brown]

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On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 03:38:31PM -0600, Dan Rue wrote:

> Can we make the meeting minutes doc public?

There's no meaningful anti-spam facilties if people get edit access to
the document so we'd need to lock it down to only specific people being
able to edit which in turn would mean that everyone would need to
explicitly add themselves as editors of the document, or be added.
That's doable (probably everyone has a Google account, though we do get
a bunch of people editing as anonymous users usually so perhaps not).

Given that the meeting minutes are just a dump of the conents of the
document it might not be worth the effort.

> Lastly, groups.io supports hashtags. If we added something like #minutes
> to the 'meeting minutes' email subjects, they'd show up under
> https://groups.io/g/kernelci/hashtags.

E-mail doesn't support hashtags though :(

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Re: [kernelci] Some suggestions and questions

[Mike Holmes]

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Mobile

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 6:49 AM Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 03:38:31PM -0600, Dan Rue wrote:
>
> > Can we make the meeting minutes doc public?
>
> There's no meaningful anti-spam facilties if people get edit access to
> the document so we'd need to lock it down to only specific people being
> able to edit which in turn would mean that everyone would need to
> explicitly add themselves as editors of the document, or be added.
> That's doable (probably everyone has a Google account, though we do get
> a bunch of people editing as anonymous users usually so perhaps not).
>
> Given that the meeting minutes are just a dump of the conents of the
> document it might not be worth the effort.
>
> > Lastly, groups.io supports hashtags. If we added something like #minutes
> > to the 'meeting minutes' email subjects, they'd show up under
> > https://groups.io/g/kernelci/hashtags.
>
> E-mail doesn't support hashtags though :(
>

What extra support bis needed ?

I assumed adding the tag to the subject was all E-mailed needed to support,
it will then pull in all replies I think, but it has to be in the first
message, but I am not an expert.

>


> 
>
>

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Re: [kernelci] Some suggestions and questions

[Mark Brown]

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On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 07:14:34AM -0500, Mike Holmes wrote:
> Mobile

Desktop.

> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 6:49 AM Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org wrote:

> > E-mail doesn't support hashtags though :(

> What extra support bis needed ?

> I assumed adding the tag to the subject was all E-mailed needed to support,
> it will then pull in all replies I think, but it has to be in the first
> message, but I am not an expert.

It'll get passed through but clients don't know to do anything with it,
you either get noise characters in the subject if people hashtag words
that are already there (which is a common way of doing these things),
it's less of an issue if they just get added to the end of the subject
line but still looks weird.  It's like when people start randomly adding
@ to people's names in e-mail.

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Re: Some suggestions and questions

[Dan Rue]

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 12:34:57PM +0000, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 07:14:34AM -0500, Mike Holmes wrote:
> > Mobile
> 
> Desktop.

Laptop.

> 
> > On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 6:49 AM Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org wrote:
> 
> > > E-mail doesn't support hashtags though :(
> 
> > What extra support bis needed ?
> 
> > I assumed adding the tag to the subject was all E-mailed needed to support,
> > it will then pull in all replies I think, but it has to be in the first
> > message, but I am not an expert.
> 
> It'll get passed through but clients don't know to do anything with it,
> you either get noise characters in the subject if people hashtag words
> that are already there (which is a common way of doing these things),
> it's less of an issue if they just get added to the end of the subject
> line but still looks weird.  It's like when people start randomly adding
> @ to people's names in e-mail.

I think we should try the hashtag - I'll make next week's meeting
minutes thread with subject Meeting #Minutes for YYYY-MM-DD. Then, we'll
end up with a linkable archive of meeting minutes at
https://groups.io/g/kernelci/hashtags, which should obviate the need for
opening up the shared google doc.

Dan

Re: Some suggestions and questions

[Mark Brown]

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On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 09:29:09AM -0600, Dan Rue wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 12:34:57PM +0000, Mark Brown wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 07:14:34AM -0500, Mike Holmes wrote:

> > It'll get passed through but clients don't know to do anything with it,
> > you either get noise characters in the subject if people hashtag words
> > that are already there (which is a common way of doing these things),
> > it's less of an issue if they just get added to the end of the subject
> > line but still looks weird.  It's like when people start randomly adding
> > @ to people's names in e-mail.

> I think we should try the hashtag - I'll make next week's meeting
> minutes thread with subject Meeting #Minutes for YYYY-MM-DD. Then, we'll
> end up with a linkable archive of meeting minutes at
> https://groups.io/g/kernelci/hashtags, which should obviate the need for
> opening up the shared google doc.

If we're going to do it could we do it with a #minutes at the end of the
subject instead so that it doesn't disrupt the actual subject?

Since people read more by pattern matching the shapes of text than by
parsing out the individual letters (particularly when reading at speed)
it's not great to have them in the middle of text, this works a lot
better in systems that support hashtags since they tend to provide
visual cues that this isn't a normal word and even there outside of
Twitter with its severe length restrictions they normally get pushed to
a separate bit after the real text (Instagram used to encourage people
to put them in comments, not even in the actual post).

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Re: Some suggestions and questions

[Dan Rue]

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 04:19:50PM +0000, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 09:29:09AM -0600, Dan Rue wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 12:34:57PM +0000, Mark Brown wrote:
> > > On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 07:14:34AM -0500, Mike Holmes wrote:
> 
> > > It'll get passed through but clients don't know to do anything with it,
> > > you either get noise characters in the subject if people hashtag words
> > > that are already there (which is a common way of doing these things),
> > > it's less of an issue if they just get added to the end of the subject
> > > line but still looks weird.  It's like when people start randomly adding
> > > @ to people's names in e-mail.
> 
> > I think we should try the hashtag - I'll make next week's meeting
> > minutes thread with subject Meeting #Minutes for YYYY-MM-DD. Then, we'll
> > end up with a linkable archive of meeting minutes at
> > https://groups.io/g/kernelci/hashtags, which should obviate the need for
> > opening up the shared google doc.
> 
> If we're going to do it could we do it with a #minutes at the end of the
> subject instead so that it doesn't disrupt the actual subject?
> 
> Since people read more by pattern matching the shapes of text than by
> parsing out the individual letters (particularly when reading at speed)
> it's not great to have them in the middle of text, this works a lot
> better in systems that support hashtags since they tend to provide
> visual cues that this isn't a normal word and even there outside of
> Twitter with its severe length restrictions they normally get pushed to
> a separate bit after the real text (Instagram used to encourage people
> to put them in comments, not even in the actual post).

Yea, good point. How's this specifically:

Subject: Weekly Meeting 2018-12-10 #minutes

Dan

Re: Some suggestions and questions

[Mark Brown]

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On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 10:33:41AM -0600, Dan Rue wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 04:19:50PM +0000, Mark Brown wrote:

> > If we're going to do it could we do it with a #minutes at the end of the
> > subject instead so that it doesn't disrupt the actual subject?

> > Since people read more by pattern matching the shapes of text than by
> > parsing out the individual letters (particularly when reading at speed)
> > it's not great to have them in the middle of text, this works a lot
> > better in systems that support hashtags since they tend to provide
> > visual cues that this isn't a normal word and even there outside of
> > Twitter with its severe length restrictions they normally get pushed to
> > a separate bit after the real text (Instagram used to encourage people
> > to put them in comments, not even in the actual post).

> Yea, good point. How's this specifically:

> Subject: Weekly Meeting 2018-12-10 #minutes

Sure.

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Re: [kernelci] Some suggestions and questions

[Mark Brown]

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On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 11:49:03AM +0000, Mark Brown wrote:

> That's doable (probably everyone has a Google account, though we do get
> a bunch of people editing as anonymous users usually so perhaps not).

I did just explicitly add some accounts that I knew in case we want to
transition.

Also, it looks like groups.io mangles signed mails, it inserts the
footer into the middle of the message text which obviously invalidates
signatures.  Unfortunately I can't see any way of controlling this.

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Re: [kernelci] Some suggestions and questions

[Kevin Hilman]

"Dan Rue" <dan.rue@linaro.org> writes:

> I've received some (internal from Linaro) questions and suggestions
> recently, and I wanted to relay them here for consideration.
>
> Can we have a changelog, that would show changes to software, hardware,
> and infrastructure.

Sure, just needs an owner. :)

> Can the kernelCI FAQ provide a link to the mailing list archive?

Needs a front-end change.

> Can we make the meeting minutes doc public?

As already discussed, I think the minues sent to the list are better,
and facilitates discussion more than the doc.

> In the interest of transparency, can we disclose how emails sent to
> info@kernelci.org are handled?

This predates the list, so any new mails (of which there are almost
none) are redirected to the mailing list. 

I think to fix this, we need to fix the /contact page to point to the
groups.io list instead of the info alias.

Kevin

Re: [kernelci] Some suggestions and questions

[Mark Brown]

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On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 10:00:38AM -0800, Kevin Hilman wrote:
> "Dan Rue" <dan.rue@linaro.org> writes:

> > In the interest of transparency, can we disclose how emails sent to
> > info@kernelci.org are handled?

> This predates the list, so any new mails (of which there are almost
> none) are redirected to the mailing list. 

> I think to fix this, we need to fix the /contact page to point to the
> groups.io list instead of the info alias.

Could we just point the alias at the list perhaps?  It's kind of nice
that it's an @kernelci.org mail (and we might want to reorganize that
again when the LF project launches anyway).

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Re: [kernelci] Some suggestions and questions

[Kevin Hilman]

Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org> writes:

> On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 10:00:38AM -0800, Kevin Hilman wrote:
>> "Dan Rue" <dan.rue@linaro.org> writes:
>
>> > In the interest of transparency, can we disclose how emails sent to
>> > info@kernelci.org are handled?
>
>> This predates the list, so any new mails (of which there are almost
>> none) are redirected to the mailing list. 
>
>> I think to fix this, we need to fix the /contact page to point to the
>> groups.io list instead of the info alias.
>
> Could we just point the alias at the list perhaps?  It's kind of nice
> that it's an @kernelci.org mail (and we might want to reorganize that
> again when the LF project launches anyway).

Done.

alias now points to the list.

Kevin