From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mgamail.intel.com (mgamail.intel.com [192.198.163.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21C0035C6AA for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2026 23:06:42 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=192.198.163.17 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1790032005; cv=none; b=jq4Gk0H5RWWhk5dRXaR7d8bjOIWOqCzlPlVxpxLGhVJhNJDB7ZsJyLzMarYHar9AQQfw/SnVrUWl6loYBaEBchF/kq0U9vqUclRNpJME4ehTWLK9BIuxxlxKdEku9XicgZwjnIMkcG/NmNfn/B/JjxEhnFa9N/oE8jA5vs16nz4= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1790032005; c=relaxed/simple; bh=qnv4axJEzG+aE0Zc6SZrdHRqe8BNEI2g1VNll2pJFOE=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=fznNJiQKp/cwyOKoWZLJvQB+oqAmGI6Dmiu0d4glORBVKVDv1NUM2rAETwlelPxRqyMJxq6prkR72nZa2Jr7E8qmD8LFWeBeo7eNTY1/suQ2jyMNtRL2vf1oemx/ekQx/R6DK5iOvkZOMLSspEJe953f1tgxWyxYOLRRmy1iXlQ= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=intel.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=intel.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=intel.com header.i=@intel.com header.b=ZPHlnA1A; arc=none smtp.client-ip=192.198.163.17 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=intel.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=intel.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=intel.com header.i=@intel.com header.b="ZPHlnA1A" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=intel.com; i=@intel.com; q=dns/txt; s=Intel; t=1790032003; x=1821568003; h=message-id:date:mime-version:subject:to:cc:references: from:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qnv4axJEzG+aE0Zc6SZrdHRqe8BNEI2g1VNll2pJFOE=; b=ZPHlnA1AZBrXoaAf6bIWNGi8/0D7M7Tr7xEL0a2bdNoX+G/XnAbahWii DTs3M9mYctiIOgtR2ks3xTkuyHy3LKxjFG9IWYW97oeLntSaTB+xquCMG LUwzFdvwHr5wmf1CIgm03jXoK5VZIG3s0HkniY1v5i1zAGP9nuY5SZQiP 5TO86GV33BC1Jt4mc/f1z1DevDb80VuXa5r+6fDCJyEfwRu+zX8I/KOU2 Y7r/2kMSwNZtTeLybpA9Vd92TdRkq67IrViBJUnv5SKyefCJyazDeSnzt TUoyp0mDASMwJTauU1VJkd+BjcaGxyd1zTz81I3ab/xPZ65wpKOyzY4TY Q==; X-CSE-ConnectionGUID: +GrT5GDrSh+FH4p8prhnlQ== X-CSE-MsgGUID: ymo0qmLcTZKvW0DcXtn9zg== X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="6800,10657,11912"; a="90455509" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="6.27,115,1787036400"; d="scan'208";a="90455509" Received: from fmviesa002.fm.intel.com ([10.60.135.142]) by fmvoesa111.fm.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 21 Sep 2026 16:06:31 -0700 X-CSE-ConnectionGUID: xcfmz0nHRPWGeg54i+SxgQ== X-CSE-MsgGUID: smP3V+8GSEaA2Q0y+9W0kA== X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="6.27,115,1787036400"; d="scan'208";a="299106284" Received: from jjgreens-desk24.amr.corp.intel.com (HELO [10.125.109.249]) ([10.125.109.249]) by fmviesa002-auth.fm.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 21 Sep 2026 16:06:30 -0700 Message-ID: <12541025-6579-4baf-911d-dcf1453b3e27@intel.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2026 16:06:31 -0700 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: kvm@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: TDG quote analysis To: Peter Fang , Sean Christopherson Cc: Rick P Edgecombe , Yilun Xu , Elena Reshetova , Binbin Wu , Vishal Annapurve , "kas@kernel.org" , "pbonzini@redhat.com" , "kvm@vger.kernel.org" References: <28f7a805c57da35d86b5c495cdf2b613a61d235e.camel@intel.com> <3f97caf660cbe460b8bbaf3f2a72e4b6a3ea83d9.camel@intel.com> <906d0cb6515b396f4e9d74f1d546c902ea3ce49a.camel@intel.com> <56a61983c03806120e607dfd1e1b7c9046c1f54b.camel@intel.com> <7d40bcd97e01390a345ce1dbe26264e7b064a619.camel@intel.com> From: Dave Hansen Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=dave.hansen@intel.com; keydata= xsFNBE6HMP0BEADIMA3XYkQfF3dwHlj58Yjsc4E5y5G67cfbt8dvaUq2fx1lR0K9h1bOI6fC oAiUXvGAOxPDsB/P6UEOISPpLl5IuYsSwAeZGkdQ5g6m1xq7AlDJQZddhr/1DC/nMVa/2BoY 2UnKuZuSBu7lgOE193+7Uks3416N2hTkyKUSNkduyoZ9F5twiBhxPJwPtn/wnch6n5RsoXsb ygOEDxLEsSk/7eyFycjE+btUtAWZtx+HseyaGfqkZK0Z9bT1lsaHecmB203xShwCPT49Blxz VOab8668QpaEOdLGhtvrVYVK7x4skyT3nGWcgDCl5/Vp3TWA4K+IofwvXzX2ON/Mj7aQwf5W iC+3nWC7q0uxKwwsddJ0Nu+dpA/UORQWa1NiAftEoSpk5+nUUi0WE+5DRm0H+TXKBWMGNCFn c6+EKg5zQaa8KqymHcOrSXNPmzJuXvDQ8uj2J8XuzCZfK4uy1+YdIr0yyEMI7mdh4KX50LO1 pmowEqDh7dLShTOif/7UtQYrzYq9cPnjU2ZW4qd5Qz2joSGTG9eCXLz5PRe5SqHxv6ljk8mb ApNuY7bOXO/A7T2j5RwXIlcmssqIjBcxsRRoIbpCwWWGjkYjzYCjgsNFL6rt4OL11OUF37wL QcTl7fbCGv53KfKPdYD5hcbguLKi/aCccJK18ZwNjFhqr4MliQARAQABzUVEYXZpZCBDaHJp c3RvcGhlciBIYW5zZW4gKEludGVsIFdvcmsgQWRkcmVzcykgPGRhdmUuaGFuc2VuQGludGVs LmNvbT7CwXgEEwECACIFAlQ+9J0CGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEGg1 lTBwyZKwLZUP/0dnbhDc229u2u6WtK1s1cSd9WsflGXGagkR6liJ4um3XCfYWDHvIdkHYC1t MNcVHFBwmQkawxsYvgO8kXT3SaFZe4ISfB4K4CL2qp4JO+nJdlFUbZI7cz/Td9z8nHjMcWYF IQuTsWOLs/LBMTs+ANumibtw6UkiGVD3dfHJAOPNApjVr+M0P/lVmTeP8w0uVcd2syiaU5jB aht9CYATn+ytFGWZnBEEQFnqcibIaOrmoBLu2b3fKJEd8Jp7NHDSIdrvrMjYynmc6sZKUqH2 I1qOevaa8jUg7wlLJAWGfIqnu85kkqrVOkbNbk4TPub7VOqA6qG5GCNEIv6ZY7HLYd/vAkVY E8Plzq/NwLAuOWxvGrOl7OPuwVeR4hBDfcrNb990MFPpjGgACzAZyjdmYoMu8j3/MAEW4P0z F5+EYJAOZ+z212y1pchNNauehORXgjrNKsZwxwKpPY9qb84E3O9KYpwfATsqOoQ6tTgr+1BR CCwP712H+E9U5HJ0iibN/CDZFVPL1bRerHziuwuQuvE0qWg0+0SChFe9oq0KAwEkVs6ZDMB2 P16MieEEQ6StQRlvy2YBv80L1TMl3T90Bo1UUn6ARXEpcbFE0/aORH/jEXcRteb+vuik5UGY 5TsyLYdPur3TXm7XDBdmmyQVJjnJKYK9AQxj95KlXLVO38lczsFNBFRjzmoBEACyAxbvUEhd GDGNg0JhDdezyTdN8C9BFsdxyTLnSH31NRiyp1QtuxvcqGZjb2trDVuCbIzRrgMZLVgo3upr MIOx1CXEgmn23Zhh0EpdVHM8IKx9Z7V0r+rrpRWFE8/wQZngKYVi49PGoZj50ZEifEJ5qn/H Nsp2+Y+bTUjDdgWMATg9DiFMyv8fvoqgNsNyrrZTnSgoLzdxr89FGHZCoSoAK8gfgFHuO54B lI8QOfPDG9WDPJ66HCodjTlBEr/Cwq6GruxS5i2Y33YVqxvFvDa1tUtl+iJ2SWKS9kCai2DR 3BwVONJEYSDQaven/EHMlY1q8Vln3lGPsS11vSUK3QcNJjmrgYxH5KsVsf6PNRj9mp8Z1kIG qjRx08+nnyStWC0gZH6NrYyS9rpqH3j+hA2WcI7De51L4Rv9pFwzp161mvtc6eC/GxaiUGuH BNAVP0PY0fqvIC68p3rLIAW3f97uv4ce2RSQ7LbsPsimOeCo/5vgS6YQsj83E+AipPr09Caj 0hloj+hFoqiticNpmsxdWKoOsV0PftcQvBCCYuhKbZV9s5hjt9qn8CE86A5g5KqDf83Fxqm/ vXKgHNFHE5zgXGZnrmaf6resQzbvJHO0Fb0CcIohzrpPaL3YepcLDoCCgElGMGQjdCcSQ+Ci FCRl0Bvyj1YZUql+ZkptgGjikQARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJUY85qAhsMAAoJEGg1lTBwyZKw l4IQAIKHs/9po4spZDFyfDjunimEhVHqlUt7ggR1Hsl/tkvTSze8pI1P6dGp2XW6AnH1iayn yRcoyT0ZJ+Zmm4xAH1zqKjWplzqdb/dO28qk0bPso8+1oPO8oDhLm1+tY+cOvufXkBTm+whm +AyNTjaCRt6aSMnA/QHVGSJ8grrTJCoACVNhnXg/R0g90g8iV8Q+IBZyDkG0tBThaDdw1B2l asInUTeb9EiVfL/Zjdg5VWiF9LL7iS+9hTeVdR09vThQ/DhVbCNxVk+DtyBHsjOKifrVsYep WpRGBIAu3bK8eXtyvrw1igWTNs2wazJ71+0z2jMzbclKAyRHKU9JdN6Hkkgr2nPb561yjcB8 sIq1pFXKyO+nKy6SZYxOvHxCcjk2fkw6UmPU6/j/nQlj2lfOAgNVKuDLothIxzi8pndB8Jju KktE5HJqUUMXePkAYIxEQ0mMc8Po7tuXdejgPMwgP7x65xtfEqI0RuzbUioFltsp1jUaRwQZ MTsCeQDdjpgHsj+P2ZDeEKCbma4m6Ez/YWs4+zDm1X8uZDkZcfQlD9NldbKDJEXLIjYWo1PH hYepSffIWPyvBMBTW2W5FRjJ4vLRrJSUoEfJuPQ3vW9Y73foyo/qFoURHO48AinGPZ7PC7TF vUaNOTjKedrqHkaOcqB185ahG2had0xnFsDPlx5y In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 9/21/26 16:00, Peter Fang wrote: >> is how to hide the fact that someone in the future might think following AMD's >> lead and putting a precious resource into a tiny microprosser on a slow bus is a >> fantastic idea. > As shocking as it sounds, there are actually cloud providers out there > that are wanting this, or at the very least wanting to see how it goes > in real deployment. I think memory side channel attacks are a real > concern for some of them. But yeah this is not great from a performance > perspective. I'll believe it when I see it (on this mailing list). If folks want complexity and low performance in the kernel for side-channel defense, then I'm your guy. I've made half a career out of it. All that I ask is that they come and ask for it in the open. Here, please.