Re: QEMU/KVM migration backwards compatibility broken?

Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2019-06-06T09:24:04Z

* Liran Alon (liran.alon@oracle.com) wrote:
>
>
> > On 6 Jun 2019, at 11:42, Dr. David Alan Gilbert <dgilbert@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > * Liran Alon (liran.alon@oracle.com) wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Looking at QEMU source code, I am puzzled regarding how migration backwards compatibility is preserved regarding X86CPU.
> >>
> >> As I understand it, fields that are based on KVM capabilities and guest runtime usage are defined in VMState subsections in order to not send them if not necessary.
> >> This is done such that in case they are not needed and we migrate to an old QEMU which don’t support loading this state, migration will still succeed
> >> (As .needed() method will return false and therefore this state won’t be sent as part of migration stream).
> >> Furthermore, in case .needed() returns true and old QEMU don’t support loading this state, migration fails. As it should because we are aware that guest state
> >> is not going to be restored properly on destination.
> >>
> >> I’m puzzled about what will happen in the following scenario:
> >> 1) Source is running new QEMU with new KVM that supports save of some VMState subsection.
> >> 2) Destination is running new QEMU that supports load this state but with old kernel that doesn’t know how to load this state.
> >>
> >> I would have expected in this case that if source .needed() returns true, then migration will fail because of lack of support in destination kernel.
> >> However, it seems from current QEMU code that this will actually succeed in many cases.
> >>
> >> For example, if msr_smi_count is sent as part of migration stream (See vmstate_msr_smi_count) and destination have has_msr_smi_count==false,
> >> then destination will succeed loading migration stream but kvm_put_msrs() will actually ignore env->msr_smi_count and will successfully load guest state.
> >> Therefore, migration will succeed even though it should have failed…
> >>
> >> It seems to me that QEMU should have for every such VMState subsection, a .post_load() method that verifies that relevant capability is supported by kernel
> >> and otherwise fail migration.
> >>
> >> What do you think? Should I really create a patch to modify all these CPUX86 VMState subsections to behave like this?
> >
> > I don't know the x86 specific side that much; but from my migration side
> > the answer should mostly be through machine types - indeed for smi-count
> > there's a property 'x-migrate-smi-count' which is off for machine types
> > pre 2.11 (see hw/i386/pc.c pc_compat_2_11) - so if you've got an old
> > kernel you should stick to the old machine types.
> >
> > There's nothing guarding running the new machine type on old-kernels;
> > and arguably we should have a check at startup that complains if
> > your kernel is missing something the machine type uses.
> > However, that would mean that people running with -M pc would fail
> > on old kernels.
> >
> > A post-load is also a valid check; but one question is whether,
> > for a particular register, the pain is worth it - it depends on the
> > symptom that the missing state causes. If it's minor then you might
> > conclude it's not worth a failed migration; if it's a hung or
> > corrupt guest then yes it is. Certainly a warning printed is worth
> > it.
> >
> > Dave
>
> I think we should have flags that allow user to specify which VMState subsections user explicitly allow to avoid restore even though they are required to fully restore guest state.
> But it seems to me that the behaviour should be to always fail migration in case we load a VMState subsections that we are unable to restore unless user explicitly specified this is ok
> for this specific subsection.
> Therefore, it seems that for every VMState subsection that it’s restore is based on kernel capability we should:
> 1) Have a user-controllable flag (which is also tied to machine-type?) to explicitly allow avoid restoring this state if cannot. Default should be “false”.
> 2) Have a .post_load() method that verifies we have required kernel capability to restore this state, unless flag (1) was specified as “true”.

This seems a lot of flags; users aren't going to know what to do with
all of them; I don't see what will set/control them.

> Note that above mentioned flags is different than flags such as “x-migrate-smi-count”.
> The purpose of “x-migrate-smi-count” flag is to avoid sending the VMState subsection to begin with in case we know we migrate to older QEMU which don’t even have the relevant VMState subsection. But it is not relevant for the case both source and destination runs QEMU which understands the VMState subsection but run on kernels with different capabilities.
>
> Also note regarding your first paragraph, that specifying flags based on kernel you are running on doesn’t help for the case discussed here.
> As source QEMU is running on new kernel. Unless you meant that source QEMU should use relevant machine-type based on the destination kernel.
> i.e. You should launch QEMU with old machine-type as long as you have hosts in your migration pool that runs with old kernel.

That's what I meant; stick to the old machine-type unless you know it's
safe to use a newer one.

> I don’ think it’s the right approach though. As there is no way to change flags such as “x-migrate-smi-count” dynamically after all hosts in migration pool have been upgraded.
>
> What do you think?

I don't have an easy answer. The users already have to make sure they
use a machine type that's old enough for all the QEMUs installed in
their cluster; making sure it's also old enough for their oldest
kernel isn't too big a difference - *except* that it's much harder to
tell which kernel corresponds to which feature/machine type etc - so
how does a user know what the newest supported machine type is?
Failing at startup when selecting a machine type that the current
kernel can't support would help that.

Dave

> -Liran
>
> >
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Liran
> > --
> > Dr. David Alan Gilbert / dgilbert@redhat.com / Manchester, UK
>
--
Dr. David Alan Gilbert / dgilbert@redhat.com / Manchester, UK