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X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?us-ascii?Q?MAq4S5LX+W1/NrBZwJoU4vC3X6IkdbIgJrsUeI1M74+LrM81YtMJxE2AOBZr?= =?us-ascii?Q?Vn97VhyIGSOJaivoy1EuGR4jhBFvRRqW8YzOsOgIMApVwzhEb169CLXLkHta?= =?us-ascii?Q?n28eHTNqmmGpg3tu80KyaCQ94qKyzjGcCW6K0io6xFUpDP8PJUuo0nuM1v6Z?= =?us-ascii?Q?n1SJfm3Ppilucnb6TEljLIHZWxEbo9XfwaSOLRo3GgWxvLkCy5Gzb6kGrv4a?= =?us-ascii?Q?7w7sprX/ncRfwHG28Eu7A3hseUBvL9be0ZRGs4uag4jZ48QaRICniIESR4qy?= =?us-ascii?Q?bQB7X7tw6PbARv9qoUOGYkWhRNA3Od/nLS60EIixJWfOzQMH8DHTUZ+1WgC+?= =?us-ascii?Q?RFI6Pb5PNtQyCr8AZQQ3xB0TFa/IksrUcBXsPgjLXcbA2sN9JfUVG+GmN4Gu?= =?us-ascii?Q?j360LS4OBO2OKcWQqBOPEtXTrvz6MXpl4Mb/E6SP7ar1t7dNBg2qwi0gAccL?= =?us-ascii?Q?oV7atC6+u7KYsvFUk4uRx/yhhLI6awWs49pB3l/tCIIyfxfiQ77aQPzQMEhN?= =?us-ascii?Q?4wAiaezOisYzOKNYjDmxe4KWHQPwjM+eekjHm407A+dkzxmBSNAGpxhiEYIQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?xusgRaitUZgkMjj19eDJxoh3W5BkBl1xn0ZONIdCBIX5u3OB8v3avWI/AsoS?= =?us-ascii?Q?OQRpcMZdCaJ/kQdlfvIqzEXQMcV13Gi7PqqigJiEizcpokl05fxmfxcOoJkj?= =?us-ascii?Q?UARMKLze4nghlqAtMgx3yC0IRS9Rs3TL+yNQKySHkbV1pmYVDQNAJa7hZG86?= =?us-ascii?Q?wCnPaei1WI2iQiwMYq/3rVWjUUiUObgft4IYALjThFRmxJ4MPG3Yu0XYHL3E?= =?us-ascii?Q?p7arDsiYExfs15on6/OcD8iSOiKIHk5pIuGwO69l15Xot+V+5VjvHJvEnURf?= =?us-ascii?Q?zLZCjlwB/YGfm4+iobIWxwDvgwFFyimeEWQnp6u2BbzB/9FBOccRiA0RuPVr?= =?us-ascii?Q?XYO5hK9/ozGie0u8YYp8YwRCtuRLlE9jA08qe5ZES7PQw6bM7PtgqEayTAgc?= =?us-ascii?Q?P8ij1XMre3ZnN1M+OLfk70QfKqOYI7DCK3UnZP6U/xct/cI4xm6zYLwTSttI?= =?us-ascii?Q?LuaFyk7xYYyMOdF7Y2CzyGOxaUloDVRT2ZBBlmm2OrZZp7qn+aKdYgQLUPEO?= =?us-ascii?Q?uia56jv/VH1lLZ/uYIhbcQQZAen5KuguPrak2XuYvo2ECUDpoT3szMl4gAMv?= =?us-ascii?Q?SoYP7kTMMSoQESUFdD67HUfg6Xwr+W3RhuBEbGd/CcC/Js4DPQS+nR9bswaA?= =?us-ascii?Q?jh/+BPFY2Yk9jH0iugzRDA3MRe9eDuWh76ocXZqNwPrnH67EAuJ22BxrYQ9V?= =?us-ascii?Q?s6MNex3OXKqZLZTKrP+CYnRiNShL7rYQh7TOIWBWHJAWVILebcxasP8KSgGV?= =?us-ascii?Q?AX9vZEWHJXI6AUHjH4ELTZhUQPiOiYrjMAZeLGML0808E4vEigY6KooZFzaM?= =?us-ascii?Q?veazZBnslP3EYDlj+DlDNR2JzdtUM0socs0L5EVf8onX6BAk8jBNeE9AVnco?= =?us-ascii?Q?1FTCp9nL7Gg4FJH6yUXwowHtgJY56/mW2F2Jccy0o1IDSOlxw8bELntKne7P?= =?us-ascii?Q?+wy5SSghn558wMY4Ct9BRevxLxns4WF6vwWC/FyK?= X-OriginatorOrg: Nvidia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 117cc56d-05ef-4cd1-e26d-08dd65722482 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CH3PR12MB8659.namprd12.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Mar 2025 16:38:27.2579 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 43083d15-7273-40c1-b7db-39efd9ccc17a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: 8egIt5/ccd0soGnswQUBqEJcQfyIeidvsbw5NNZ3waTnWadJDPHfx1T9sOy80rT7 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN0PR12MB5788 On Tue, Mar 11, 2025 at 06:37:13PM -0700, Dan Williams wrote: > > There is a use case for using TDISP and getting devices up into an > > ecrypted/attested state on pure bare metal without any KVM, VFIO > > should work in that use case too. > > Are you sure you are not confusing the use case for native PCI CMA plus > PCIe IDE *without* PCIe TDISP? Oh maybe, who knows with all this complexity :\ I see there is a crossover point, once you start getting T=1 traffic then you need a KVM handle to process it, yes, but everything prior to T=0, including all the use cases with T=0 IDE, attestation and so on, still need to be working. > In other words validate device measurements over a secure session > and set up link encryption, but not enable DMA to private > memory. Without a cVM there is no private memory for the device to > talk to in the TDISP run state, but you can certainly encrypt the > PCIe link. Right. But can you do that all without touching tdisp? > However that pretty much only gets you an extension of a secure session > to a PCIe link state. It does not enable end-to-end MMIO and DMA > integrity+confidentiality. But that is the point, right? You want to bind your IDE encryption to the device attestation and get all of those things. I thought you needed some TDISP for that? > Note that to my knowledge all but the Intel TEE I/O implementation > disallow routing T=0 traffic over IDE. I'm not sure that will hold up long term, I hear alot of people talking about using IDE to solve all kinds of PCI problems that have nothing to do with CC. > The uapi proposed in the PCI/TSM series [1] is all about the setup of PCI > CMA + PCIe IDE without KVM as a precuror to all the VFIO + KVM + IOMMUFD > work needed to get the TDI able to publish private MMIO and DMA to > private memory. That seems reasonable Jason