Re: VT-x and Performance counter interrupt in KVM mode

Re: VT-x and Performance counter interrupt in KVM mode

[Stephane Eranian]

Hi Avi,

> 
> Shobha Ranganathan wrote:
> > I am trying to capture in vmx.c the hardware
> > performance counter(PMU) interrupt of a i386 Linux
> > kernel running with perfmon on a Core 2 Duo machine
> > running with kvm-15. host is running kvm with VT-x in
> > x86-64 mode.
> >
> > The PMU interrupt is programmed in the APIC LVT entry
> > (set to 0xee)by the guest OS. 
> 
> On stock kvm, the guest os programs a virtual apic that lives in qemu, 
> not the real apic, so it would never cause any interrupt.  Are you 
> running with a modified kvm that allows the guest to touch the real apic?
> 

The Performance counters (PMU) cannot be fully virtualized, they need to
run on the actual MSR registers. The PMU interrupt is controlled by the
local APIC. To get overflow-based sampling to work in a guest, we need to
allow the PMU to interrupt. Supposing we have allowed wrmsr,rdmsr to the
PMU registers, the guest perfmon will setup the virtual APIC and virtual
IDT as it normally would on real HW. VT-x takes care of the IDT but not
of the APIC. The guest never touches the real APIC, qemu handles this.
However if the host kernel is running perfmon, it does already have the
actual APIC programmed for the PMU.

In this configuration, the host perfmon interrupt driver catches the PMU
interrupt generated while running in non-root VMX mode. At that point, there
is a VM-exit. I have now been able to track down the type of exit in this
case. You have a VM-exit for an external interrupt, which is fine, however
the intr_info (VM_EXIT_INTR_INFO) is 0x0, in other words, VT-x does not give
you any good info as to why you exited. As soon as you leave the VM_RESUME code,
you branch to the host perfmon interrupt handler.

In any case, the current solution I have for this is sort of hybrid because
you rely on the host APIC to be programmed correctly, and then you need
communication between the host perfmon code and the KVM kernel code to be
able to inject the PMU interrupt back into the guest. Another solution I have
experimented is for the host perfmon to notify the user level qemu APIC code
(SIGIO) which then issues the right KVM_INTERRUPT ioctl(), but that is slow
and has some rce condition with the guest.

The timer interrupt, also normally controlled by the APIC, is managed differently
and can be fully virtualized by qemu using Linux timers. The PMU cannot be
virtualized that way.

At this point, even if you had APIC emulation in KVM (kernel), I am not sure
this would solve this issue. I think I can live with having back communication
between the host perfmon and KVM.

Any better ideas?

> > Similarly, an IDT entry
> > connects the interrupt vector to the interrupt
> > handler.
> > I am not able to catch, in kvm, the PMU interrupt
> > happening in VMX non-root mode. It does not seem to
> > appear in the VM-exit interruption information nor in
> > the IDT-vectoring information. It does not seem to
> > be caught by any of the exit handlers yet the host PMU
> > interrupt handler catches it which is not what we
> > want.
> >
> > Any idea on what is going on with this interrupt?
> >   
> 
> It looks completely normal, assuming the host also programmed the timer 
> to the same vector.  Look in qemu/hw/apic.c to find your missing interrupt.
> 

-- 
-Stephane

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Re: VT-x and Performance counter interrupt in KVM mode

[Avi Kivity]

Stephane Eranian wrote:
> Hi Avi,
>
>   
>> Shobha Ranganathan wrote:
>>     
>>> I am trying to capture in vmx.c the hardware
>>> performance counter(PMU) interrupt of a i386 Linux
>>> kernel running with perfmon on a Core 2 Duo machine
>>> running with kvm-15. host is running kvm with VT-x in
>>> x86-64 mode.
>>>
>>> The PMU interrupt is programmed in the APIC LVT entry
>>> (set to 0xee)by the guest OS. 
>>>       
>> On stock kvm, the guest os programs a virtual apic that lives in qemu, 
>> not the real apic, so it would never cause any interrupt.  Are you 
>> running with a modified kvm that allows the guest to touch the real apic?
>>
>>     
>
> The Performance counters (PMU) cannot be fully virtualized, they need to
> run on the actual MSR registers. The PMU interrupt is controlled by the
> local APIC. To get overflow-based sampling to work in a guest, we need to
> allow the PMU to interrupt. Supposing we have allowed wrmsr,rdmsr to the
> PMU registers, the guest perfmon will setup the virtual APIC and virtual
> IDT as it normally would on real HW. VT-x takes care of the IDT but not
> of the APIC. The guest never touches the real APIC, qemu handles this.
> However if the host kernel is running perfmon, it does already have the
> actual APIC programmed for the PMU.
>
> In this configuration, the host perfmon interrupt driver catches the PMU
> interrupt generated while running in non-root VMX mode. At that point, there
> is a VM-exit. I have now been able to track down the type of exit in this
> case. You have a VM-exit for an external interrupt, which is fine, however
> the intr_info (VM_EXIT_INTR_INFO) is 0x0, in other words, VT-x does not give
> you any good info as to why you exited. As soon as you leave the VM_RESUME code,
> you branch to the host perfmon interrupt handler.
>   

Actually it can be convinced to give the interrupt number.  Right now, 
we program VT not to ack interrupts, so we don't know their number, and 
they are dispatched by the processor as soon as we enable interrupts on 
the host.

An alternative mechanism exists.  We can tell VT to ack the interrupt, 
in which case the vector number becomes valid, but we need to dispatch 
the interrupt ourselves using the 'int' instruction.

As I'd rather not do that, perhaps we can program the apic to issue an 
nmi instead of an interrupt while in guest mode.  On receipt of nmi, we 
can call the host perfmon handler directly to interpret the performance 
counters.

> In any case, the current solution I have for this is sort of hybrid because
> you rely on the host APIC to be programmed correctly, and then you need
> communication between the host perfmon code and the KVM kernel code to be
> able to inject the PMU interrupt back into the guest. Another solution I have
> experimented is for the host perfmon to notify the user level qemu APIC code
> (SIGIO) which then issues the right KVM_INTERRUPT ioctl(), but that is slow
> and has some rce condition with the guest.
>
>   

That looks promising.  The slowness can be addressed by (first) moving 
to queued signals instead of delivered signals and (later) pushing the 
apic emulation into the kernel.

VT also has a facility to swap msrs on entry to the guest and back.

> The timer interrupt, also normally controlled by the APIC, is managed differently
> and can be fully virtualized by qemu using Linux timers. The PMU cannot be
> virtualized that way.
>
> At this point, even if you had APIC emulation in KVM (kernel), I am not sure
> this would solve this issue. I think I can live with having back communication
> between the host perfmon and KVM.
>
> Any better ideas?
>
>   

It really depends on what one wants to do with the performance monitor 
on the guest:

- if it's just to shut up the nmi watchdog, we can report a cpu model 
that does not have the performance monitor (which would be a classic 
Pentium? or maybe a 486?)
- if we want something like the nmi watchdog to run, we can emulate all 
counters based on cpu cycles, even if they count branches or something 
else.  That gives an inaccurate but sort-of-working counter, which we 
can emulate using host timers.
- if we want real performance monitoring, we need to do the msr swap. 
That has the disadvantage of disabling perfmon on the host, and of being 
depressingly complex.

What application do you have in mind for kvm guest performance monitoring?

>>> Similarly, an IDT entry
>>> connects the interrupt vector to the interrupt
>>> handler.
>>> I am not able to catch, in kvm, the PMU interrupt
>>> happening in VMX non-root mode. It does not seem to
>>> appear in the VM-exit interruption information nor in
>>> the IDT-vectoring information. It does not seem to
>>> be caught by any of the exit handlers yet the host PMU
>>> interrupt handler catches it which is not what we
>>> want.
>>>
>>> Any idea on what is going on with this interrupt?
>>>   
>>>       
>> It looks completely normal, assuming the host also programmed the timer 
>> to the same vector.  Look in qemu/hw/apic.c to find your missing interrupt.
>>
>>     
>
>   


-- 
error compiling committee.c: too many arguments to function


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Re: VT-x and Performance counter interrupt in KVM mode

[Stephane Eranian]

Avi,

On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 07:10:58PM +0200, Avi Kivity wrote:
> >>    
> >
> >The Performance counters (PMU) cannot be fully virtualized, they need to
> >run on the actual MSR registers. The PMU interrupt is controlled by the
> >local APIC. To get overflow-based sampling to work in a guest, we need to
> >allow the PMU to interrupt. Supposing we have allowed wrmsr,rdmsr to the
> >PMU registers, the guest perfmon will setup the virtual APIC and virtual
> >IDT as it normally would on real HW. VT-x takes care of the IDT but not
> >of the APIC. The guest never touches the real APIC, qemu handles this.
> >However if the host kernel is running perfmon, it does already have the
> >actual APIC programmed for the PMU.
> >
> >In this configuration, the host perfmon interrupt driver catches the PMU
> >interrupt generated while running in non-root VMX mode. At that point, 
> >there
> >is a VM-exit. I have now been able to track down the type of exit in this
> >case. You have a VM-exit for an external interrupt, which is fine, however
> >the intr_info (VM_EXIT_INTR_INFO) is 0x0, in other words, VT-x does not 
> >give
> >you any good info as to why you exited. As soon as you leave the VM_RESUME 
> >code,
> >you branch to the host perfmon interrupt handler.
> >  
> 
> Actually it can be convinced to give the interrupt number.  Right now, 
> we program VT not to ack interrupts, so we don't know their number, and 
> they are dispatched by the processor as soon as we enable interrupts on 
> the host.
> 
> An alternative mechanism exists.  We can tell VT to ack the interrupt, 
> in which case the vector number becomes valid, but we need to dispatch 
> the interrupt ourselves using the 'int' instruction.
> 
Ok, I missed that control but I see it now (bit 15).

> As I'd rather not do that, perhaps we can program the apic to issue an 
> nmi instead of an interrupt while in guest mode.  On receipt of nmi, we 
> can call the host perfmon handler directly to interpret the performance 
> counters.
> 
Yes, but that would be no different from what I have now without the ack-intr.
What you'd like is to catch the PMU intr right away and re-inject it without
using the host perfmon interrupt handler. It seem the only way to do this 
is by acking intr. Unfortunately, it is an all or nothing control.

The other worry in this scheme is that the injection would be done without
qemu intervening. Thus you would not be able to check whether the virtual APIC 
LVT vector is curently masked. Its configuration may be different from the
actual APIC. But that is probably ok for now. Is there a plan to move the
APIC emulation into KVM?

> >In any case, the current solution I have for this is sort of hybrid because
> >you rely on the host APIC to be programmed correctly, and then you need
> >communication between the host perfmon code and the KVM kernel code to be
> >able to inject the PMU interrupt back into the guest. Another solution I 
> >have
> >experimented is for the host perfmon to notify the user level qemu APIC 
> >code
> >(SIGIO) which then issues the right KVM_INTERRUPT ioctl(), but that is slow
> >and has some rce condition with the guest.
> >
> 
> That looks promising.  The slowness can be addressed by (first) moving 
> to queued signals instead of delivered signals and (later) pushing the 
> apic emulation into the kernel.
> 
> VT also has a facility to swap msrs on entry to the guest and back.
> 
Yes, I am using some of that to stop monitoring when entering KVM.

> 
> It really depends on what one wants to do with the performance monitor 
> on the guest:
> 
> - if it's just to shut up the nmi watchdog, we can report a cpu model 
> that does not have the performance monitor (which would be a classic 
> Pentium? or maybe a 486?)

No, the goal is to provide full acecss to the PMU for performance monitoring
just like you would be able on bare HW.

> - if we want something like the nmi watchdog to run, we can emulate all 
> counters based on cpu cycles, even if they count branches or something 
> else.  That gives an inaccurate but sort-of-working counter, which we 
> can emulate using host timers.

No, that's is my goal. I want to allow monitoring tools to run in a guest.
I think people would want to assess performance of their applications when
running in a guest. You can get the outside view using the host perfmon,
but you also want the inside view.

> - if we want real performance monitoring, we need to do the msr swap. 

You mean if you do not want to conflict with the host using the PMU
for itself? Well, the host perfmon can take care of this.

-- 
-Stephane

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Re: VT-x and Performance counter interrupt in KVM mode

[Avi Kivity]

Stephane Eranian wrote:
>   
>> As I'd rather not do that, perhaps we can program the apic to issue an 
>> nmi instead of an interrupt while in guest mode.  On receipt of nmi, we 
>> can call the host perfmon handler directly to interpret the performance 
>> counters.
>>
>>     
> Yes, but that would be no different from what I have now without the ack-intr.
> What you'd like is to catch the PMU intr right away and re-inject it without
> using the host perfmon interrupt handler. It seem the only way to do this 
> is by acking intr. Unfortunately, it is an all or nothing control.
>   

It is a little different, but perhaps not enough.  If perfmon is the 
only nmi source, or if you can find out the source of the nmi, then you 
don't need to take the nmi but can instead call the perfmon handler.  
Otherwise we'd need to dispatch interrupts manually.

> The other worry in this scheme is that the injection would be done without
> qemu intervening. Thus you would not be able to check whether the virtual APIC 
> LVT vector is curently masked. Its configuration may be different from the
> actual APIC. But that is probably ok for now. 

You certainly need to go through the apic for correctness, using a 
signal like you outlined before might be a good interim solution.

> Is there a plan to move the
> APIC emulation into KVM?
>
>   

Yes.  It's needed for smp and kernel-only paravirt devices.

>> It really depends on what one wants to do with the performance monitor 
>> on the guest:
>>
>> - if it's just to shut up the nmi watchdog, we can report a cpu model 
>> that does not have the performance monitor (which would be a classic 
>> Pentium? or maybe a 486?)
>>     
>
> No, the goal is to provide full acecss to the PMU for performance monitoring
> just like you would be able on bare HW.
>
>   

Ok.  I'm just glad I don't have to do it ;-)

>   
>> - if we want real performance monitoring, we need to do the msr swap. 
>>     
>
> You mean if you do not want to conflict with the host using the PMU
> for itself? Well, the host perfmon can take care of this.
>   

If the host wants system-wide monitoring (% cpu / tlb miss / whatever in 
each process, including vms) and a vm wants monitoring too, then you 
don't have enough resources to go round.  There's a similar problem with 
the debug registers; if the host wants to debug a guest, which is itself 
debugging a process, something has to give.


-- 
error compiling committee.c: too many arguments to function


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VT-x and Performance counter interrupt in KVM mode

[Shobha Ranganathan]

I am trying to capture in vmx.c the hardware
performance counter(PMU) interrupt of a i386 Linux
kernel running with perfmon on a Core 2 Duo machine
running with kvm-15. host is running kvm with VT-x in
x86-64 mode.

The PMU interrupt is programmed in the APIC LVT entry
(set to 0xee)by the guest OS. Similarly, an IDT entry
connects the interrupt vector to the interrupt
handler.
I am not able to catch, in kvm, the PMU interrupt
happening in VMX non-root mode. It does not seem to
appear in the VM-exit interruption information nor in
the IDT-vectoring information. It does not seem to
be caught by any of the exit handlers yet the host PMU
interrupt handler catches it which is not what we
want.

Any idea on what is going on with this interrupt?

Thanks
shobha



 
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Re: VT-x and Performance counter interrupt in KVM mode

[Avi Kivity]

Shobha Ranganathan wrote:
> I am trying to capture in vmx.c the hardware
> performance counter(PMU) interrupt of a i386 Linux
> kernel running with perfmon on a Core 2 Duo machine
> running with kvm-15. host is running kvm with VT-x in
> x86-64 mode.
>
> The PMU interrupt is programmed in the APIC LVT entry
> (set to 0xee)by the guest OS. 

On stock kvm, the guest os programs a virtual apic that lives in qemu, 
not the real apic, so it would never cause any interrupt.  Are you 
running with a modified kvm that allows the guest to touch the real apic?


> Similarly, an IDT entry
> connects the interrupt vector to the interrupt
> handler.
> I am not able to catch, in kvm, the PMU interrupt
> happening in VMX non-root mode. It does not seem to
> appear in the VM-exit interruption information nor in
> the IDT-vectoring information. It does not seem to
> be caught by any of the exit handlers yet the host PMU
> interrupt handler catches it which is not what we
> want.
>
> Any idea on what is going on with this interrupt?
>   

It looks completely normal, assuming the host also programmed the timer 
to the same vector.  Look in qemu/hw/apic.c to find your missing interrupt.

-- 
Do not meddle in the internals of kernels, for they are subtle and quick to panic.


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Re: VT-x and Performance counter interrupt in KVM mode

[Dor Laor]

>I am trying to capture in vmx.c the hardware
>performance counter(PMU) interrupt of a i386 Linux
>kernel running with perfmon on a Core 2 Duo machine
>running with kvm-15. host is running kvm with VT-x in
>x86-64 mode.
>
>The PMU interrupt is programmed in the APIC LVT entry
>(set to 0xee)by the guest OS. Similarly, an IDT entry
>connects the interrupt vector to the interrupt
>handler.
>I am not able to catch, in kvm, the PMU interrupt
>happening in VMX non-root mode. It does not seem to
>appear in the VM-exit interruption information nor in
>the IDT-vectoring information. It does not seem to
>be caught by any of the exit handlers yet the host PMU
>interrupt handler catches it which is not what we
>want.
>
>Any idea on what is going on with this interrupt?

It cannot just work by itself. You need to virtualize it.
You need to handle the RDPMC action in the guest and virtualize
it on the host. When the host will get interrupted (running in 
non-vmx root mode) you'll need to inject the irq back to the 
guest. Also note that you'll need to save the PMC state for
each guest on the host side.


>
>Thanks
>shobha
>
>
>
>
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