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From: Arjan van de Ven <arjan@linux.intel.com>
To: Sean Christopherson <seanjc@google.com>
Cc: "Xin Li (Intel)" <xin@zytor.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, pbonzini@redhat.com,
	tglx@linutronix.de, mingo@redhat.com, bp@alien8.de,
	dave.hansen@linux.intel.com, x86@kernel.org, hpa@zytor.com,
	rafael@kernel.org, pavel@kernel.org, brgerst@gmail.com,
	david.kaplan@amd.com, peterz@infradead.org,
	andrew.cooper3@citrix.com, kprateek.nayak@amd.com,
	chao.gao@intel.com, rick.p.edgecombe@intel.com,
	dan.j.williams@intel.com
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v1 0/5] x86/boot, KVM: Move VMXON/VMXOFF handling from KVM to CPU lifecycle
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2025 06:48:18 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5036681a-57ed-4fa2-ac0a-bfe235a17e2a@linux.intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <aMmkZlWl4TiS2qm8@google.com>

On 9/16/2025 10:54 AM, Sean Christopherson wrote:
  what the problem is with having VMXON unconditionally enabled?
> 
> Unlike say EFER.SVME, VMXON fundamentally changes CPU behavior.  E.g. blocks INIT,

blocking INIT is clearly a thing, and both KVM and this patch series deal with that by vmxoff before offline/kexec/etc cases

> activates VMCS caches (which aren't cleared by VMXOFF on pre-SPR CPUs, and AFAIK
> Intel hasn't even publicly committed to that behavior for SPR+),

the VMCS caches aren't great for sure -- which is why the behavior of having vmx on all the time and only
vmxoff at a "fatal to execution" point (offline, kexec, ..) is making life simpler, by not dealing
with this at runtime


 > restricts allowed> CR0 and CR4 values, raises questions about ucode patch updates, triggers unique
> flows in SMI/RSM, prevents Intel PT from tracing on certain CPUs, and probably a
> few other things I'm forgetting.

I went through a similar mental list and my conclusion was a bit different.
The behavior changes are minor at best ..
And yes there are a few things different in microcode -- but the reality is that every day millions of
servers and laptops/etc all run with vmxon (by virtue of running KVM or other virtualization)
all day long, day in day out -- and it is not causing any issues at all.

An argument that any supposed behavior change is unacceptable also implies virtualization
itself would run into that same argument... and a LOT of the world runs virtualized.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2025-09-17 13:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 26+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-09-09 18:28 [RFC PATCH v1 0/5] x86/boot, KVM: Move VMXON/VMXOFF handling from KVM to CPU lifecycle Xin Li (Intel)
2025-09-09 18:28 ` [RFC PATCH v1 1/5] x86/boot: Shift VMXON from KVM init to CPU startup phase Xin Li (Intel)
2025-09-10  5:37   ` Adrian Hunter
2025-09-10  7:25   ` Chao Gao
2025-09-11  6:57     ` Xin Li
2025-09-10  8:02   ` Huang, Kai
2025-09-10 11:10     ` Chao Gao
2025-09-10 11:35       ` Huang, Kai
2025-09-10 13:13         ` Arjan van de Ven
2025-09-10 20:52           ` Huang, Kai
2025-09-09 18:28 ` [RFC PATCH v1 2/5] x86/boot: Move VMXOFF from KVM teardown to CPU shutdown phase Xin Li (Intel)
2025-09-09 18:28 ` [RFC PATCH v1 3/5] x86/shutdown, KVM: VMX: Move VMCLEAR of VMCSs to cpu_disable_virtualization() Xin Li (Intel)
2025-09-09 18:28 ` [RFC PATCH v1 4/5] x86/reboot: Remove emergency_reboot_disable_virtualization() Xin Li (Intel)
2025-09-09 18:28 ` [RFC PATCH v1 5/5] KVM: Remove kvm_rebooting and its references Xin Li (Intel)
2025-09-16 17:56   ` Sean Christopherson
2025-09-17 16:51     ` Xin Li
2025-09-17 23:02       ` Sean Christopherson
2025-09-11 14:20 ` [RFC PATCH v1 0/5] x86/boot, KVM: Move VMXON/VMXOFF handling from KVM to CPU lifecycle Sean Christopherson
2025-09-11 15:20   ` Dave Hansen
2025-09-16 17:29     ` Sean Christopherson
2025-09-11 17:04   ` Arjan van de Ven
2025-09-16 17:54     ` Sean Christopherson
2025-09-16 18:25       ` Jim Mattson
2025-09-17 13:48       ` Arjan van de Ven [this message]
2025-09-17 17:30       ` Xin Li
2025-09-17 22:40         ` Sean Christopherson

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